Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
NAMM 2018
Forums With A View!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
ADVERTISE on Piano World
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Pierce Piano Atlas

Who's Online Now
62 registered members (akc42, Alex C, ando, 7uturu, 16 invisible), 828 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2306271 - 07/24/14 01:42 AM Franz Liszt - Un Sospiro  
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23
sislermi Offline
Full Member
sislermi  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 23

Pretty sure there's a lot wrong with it, but what do you think so far. Yeah, yeah, I completely screwed up the cadenzas, I got confused for a second and choked or something and had to either play it slow or not at all lol. And I think the last variation I accidentally played at a practice tempo (lol and I totally thought I was doing it correctly while playing it haha). These things will be fixed for next time since I already know them, what else should I take into consideration.

Last edited by sislermi; 07/24/14 02:00 AM.
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2306408 - 07/24/14 09:46 AM Re: Franz Liszt - Un Sospiro [Re: sislermi]  
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,334
Michael Sayers Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Michael Sayers  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,334
Stockholms län, Sverige
Now there are two "Michael S" persons here . . . it reminds that there is a video of a Mike Sayers at youtube with the title saying he is the greatest piano player in the world! grin

(that other person is here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KATCtdXgiRs - it is NOT me!)

I don't care about wrong notes when I listen to music, what interests me is expression, what is done with the music, where does it transport me, what does it say . . . I can see you've worked on this etude, when the mechanics are more solid maybe you can relax the literalness of the playing - it is fine to linger over phrases, beats, individual notes, expand and contract the musical pulse, et c., and to push the dynamics, striving sometimes even for soaring surges of sound and all manner of sheens of colour.

I have a Roland F-110 here that I sometimes use to protect neighbors from being disturbed so I know it is possible to at least be allusive of this with a digital even though it can't have the nuance and the variation of tone quality of the real thing. It isn't necessary to be gentle with it. Though when it becomes overloaded at full fortissimo it might start buzzing and have to be turned off and then back on to be reset, I've never broken it. Unfortunately I can't say the same thing about real pianos I've played being undamaged.

Maybe you can connect a cable from it to a computer and record the audio that way with Audacity?

Keep up the effort, I am sure you can get it to where you want it to be!

#2306569 - 07/24/14 03:07 PM Re: Franz Liszt - Un Sospiro [Re: sislermi]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,040
BruceD Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BruceD  Offline

Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 21,040
Victoria, BC
I agree with what Michael was suggesting when he said that this was too "literal" an interpretation of the score; at the moment it lacks a sense of expansiveness that the very title suggests. Indeed, there are some places in the score that you could attend to more "literally" and still have a more musical performance as you work on this further.

The opening two measures should show a slight "swell" in volume towards the beginning of measure 2, and then a decrescendo before the melody starts. Similarly when the melody begins, there is a slight crescendo towards the top note of the phrase followed by a decrescendo. If you observe this more carefully, it will give needed shape to the phrase.

Starting at measure 13 where the melody is in broken octaves, makes sure that you play those broken octaves as triplets. The right hand is usually pretty close to triplets, but when the left hand crosses over, the first note is sometimes inclined to be a little short, making it sound close to a sixteenth-note. I would suggest practicing the two hand melody without the accompaniment until you get a real sense of triplets; then add the accompaniment.

Measure 21 is marked "appassionato" but I certainly don't hear that for the moment.

There are two things to note starting at measure 23:
- You have slowed the tempo when there is no indication to do so
- The left hand sounds too "notey;" blend the notes of the accompaniment more at this point. We should hear the harmony, of course, but should not be so aware of each individual accompaniment note.

Again, at measure 27: "agitato con passionato" You really need to give this a lot more drive and - literally - passion! Those descending octaves in measures 28 and 29 should really rush forward toward the D-flat on the third beat of measure 29 followed by even more of a crescendo into the F major chord at measure 30.

Notice that you are now back to tempo at measure 30.

I know it's difficult - for me, one of the more difficult sections of the piece - but you need to bring out the top notes of the left hand in measures 34, 35, 36, and 37; that's where the melody lies.

Make something of the rit. at the end of the first cadenza. Then, take a breath, a real breath, before beginning the next section; you rush into the section, in my opinion. And begin it as marked: "sotto voce" and "languendo"; these are very important directions to get the right feel for this section: there should be a dreamy, languid feel to these measures. It just sounds too "matter of fact" rather than the languishing, yearning sound that Liszt calls for here. Gently "place" that first chord of measure 40 and measure 42: i.e. give just a fraction of a second of hesitation before you play the chord so that your listener really is made aware of that lovely change in tonality.

Careful! There's some very careless pedalling in measures 38 through 42: the harmony is much too blurred.

I realize that this is not yet at performance level, but you need to aim for greater speed and lightness at measure 46 all the way through the end of the second cadenza, something I have never completely mastered!

Starting at measure 53, you need to work not only on bringing the melody notes out as the alternate between the right and left thumbs, but you need to give shape to the phrase that they create, just as you needed to at the very beginning of the work. Tone down the right hand arpeggios considerably, too.

Measure 62: Same problem with pedalling as I mentioned earlier!

In the three different editions I have of this work they all indicate, in measures 70 and 71, that the melody is in the left hand when it crosses over the right; bring it out, please. Don't release the pedal in the middle of measure 71, at least not until all of the E-flat minor chord has resonated.

Why do you suddenly accent the F-major chord in measure 76? I like to think of these last measures as a "chorale" gently rising to the F at the top of the D-flat major chord in measure 75 and then subsiding gradually to the final chord. Watch your timing in measure 75; that first note is a dotted half-note and you're not giving it its full value.

You are certainly well on the way to getting the notes of this etude in your hands; don't worry about the occasional wrong note at the moment, these eventually will be cleared up, won't they? Now you need to give some attention to what this piece means, musically and emotionally, and decide what you are going to do to realize those goals.

Thanks for sharing; I hope some of my comments may be useful.


P.S. This should have been posted in the member recordings section.

- - - - -
Estonia 190
#2306579 - 07/24/14 03:17 PM Re: Franz Liszt - Un Sospiro [Re: sislermi]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 148
Art_Vandelay Offline
Full Member
Art_Vandelay  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 148
Stillwater, OK
Wow, that was some detailed instruction! Clearly I need to move and take lessons from you, Bruce.

"If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis."

"If life gives you lemonade, make lemons. Life'll be all like whaaaaaat?" - Phil Dunphy
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2306605 - 07/24/14 03:51 PM Re: Franz Liszt - Un Sospiro [Re: sislermi]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
beet31425 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
beet31425  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
Bay Area, CA
Contrasting the OP's original assessment ("I completely screwed up the cadenzas") with BruceD's criticism reminds me of a pattern I see all the time with my own lessons: We often correlate "how well we did" with "how many of the right notes we hit", while our audience is actually listening for, and judging us on, something completely different.


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
#2306616 - 07/24/14 04:02 PM Re: Franz Liszt - Un Sospiro [Re: sislermi]  
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 148
Art_Vandelay Offline
Full Member
Art_Vandelay  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 148
Stillwater, OK
Good point. As impressive as the cadenzas are, in terms of overall importance to the piece I would place them last. I would rather hear a bad cadenza than a poorly phrased melody.

"If peeing your pants is cool, consider me Miles Davis."

"If life gives you lemonade, make lemons. Life'll be all like whaaaaaat?" - Phil Dunphy
#2306821 - 07/25/14 04:04 AM Re: Franz Liszt - Un Sospiro [Re: sislermi]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,073
musicpassion Offline
2000 Post Club Member
musicpassion  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,073
California, USA
Since my ipad battery is almost dead I'll make this short, with just one idea:

In m21 and m22 there are several important musical directions. First the appassionato, which was already mentioned. Then the fermata. Then the rit., which works with the fermata. Next the smorz. Then the "in tempo" in m22, combined with a "p" and a "dolce." A very busy two measures. All of these are needed to shape the musical expression in these two measures.

Hope this is helpful - best wishes as you keep working on this beautiful piece.

Pianist and Piano Teacher

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
Save Big In our online store now

In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.

Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
Pianist Magazine
Pianist Magazine - Issue 100
Maine Coast Music Vacation for Adults
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
PianoTeq 6 Out now
New Topics - Multiple Forums
Advice/assistance for stringing
by music kitchen. 02/22/18 03:19 AM
What a bench
by monkeeys. 02/22/18 12:29 AM
Learn How to Improvise
by Joe302. 02/21/18 08:40 PM
Forum Statistics
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |

copyright 1997 - 2018 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0