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Another thing that's been asked ad nauseum.

None of those things address the physical act of playing. They may help with artistic ideas (which are really just material happenings in your brain), but they won't help with an understanding of the physical act of piano play.

Learned my lesson. Just go to all scientific literature in the English language and I will find the answer.

When you think about it forums are the perfect place to do the Turing Test. This one certainly fails!

No, you won't be able to do that, and you don't need to either.

Just perform some searches on some journals as a starting point; it's pretty easy to intuit your way around the research-space after that.

There wasn't a Turing Test being run anywhere. A test that is not run cannot fail.

Actually I'm referring to sad state of education in general, as evidenced by the growing number of high school graduates who can barely read, have only rudimentary math skills, and can't write their way out of a paper bag. And the situation isn't always much better at the college level (depending on the institution, of course). As for artistic pedagogy - many teachers simply teach the same way they were taught - and pedagogy courses aren't necessarily focused on "science."

MY understanding of the IMPLICATION of MY OWN statement is markedly different than your understanding of it. As for YOUR statement that "Scientific knowledge makes people better pianists," I'd qualify that by saying "Scientific knowledge has the potential to make some people better pianists...however, the information must be received, understood and put into practice. Not all folks are interested in or capable of doing that. Their loss, perhaps - but that's the way it is.

Alternatively, become adept with the Google search engine, and you'll soon discover where the troll finds his ludicrous and nonsensical 'facts'.

Seriously, the troll is spewing out lots of silly conjectures based on choice bits picked up from various websites, most of which are laughable in their idiocy. The latest one on the interossei muscles of the hand (which I'm very familiar with, having dissected my way through a cadaver during the training for my present job) is but one of numerous examples in this thread alone.

Let's all stop feeding this troll, before some of us - especially newer PW members - start questioning our own (and our teachers') judgements and reasonings of the how and why of the art of playing the piano.

That right there is precisely the problem.


These people are known as "ignorant" or "close-minded", but yes, I agree these sorts of people do exist. Those poor people.

Perhaps this entire thread has simply been a material happening in my brain....although it feels more like a broken record that keeps repeating and repeating and repeating......

Cite one specific source *you* think is relevant to your point. *That* would be a starting point relevant to this discussion.

Just a single one, so we can judge for ourselves whether any of what you are saying has been tested and proven through rigorous research as thoroughly as you claim. That's not asking too much, is it?

I can confirm that it is not, and this thread is indeed real. It exists in a MySQL database outside of your mind...

Which point?

The internet has come alive. It's alive I tell you!

Of course it is. A no brainer.
No - that's simply how YOU apparently choose to perceive and classify them. And I hope you realize how unbelievably condescending your "these sorts of people" and "those poor people" statements are.

Nope. It is a factually correct statement to say that these sorts of people are ignorant. It's not only my opinion, it's also a factual claim to truth.

@ Atrys: A page or so ago, Vid asked you this question: can you cite sources where scientific knowledge is applied to piano technique and pedagogy?

Your response was to refer him to a Wikipedia page listing whatever scientific journals random people have thought to add, in a variety of disciplines so wide as to be pointless in the context of this particular conversation. It makes me think you are pulling your "objective truths" out of your hat, and to hide it, you tell people to "do their own homework".

Get me one peer-reviewed article that reports specifically on the relationship between movement and pianistic skill. Then perhaps, we can have a meaningful conversation based on that.

My response was appropriate and addressed his request.


One does not need an article to know that piano play is a physical feat, so of course movement and motions makeup this feat.

Jesus, it's like some of you people have never done homework or research or any other kind of intellectual endeavor in your whole life. Don't expect to be spoonfed everything. Laziness is just one of many paths to ignorance.

Sure - whatever you want to believe is fine. Perception is reality after all.

You are a funny guy, Atrys. And so, oh so predictable. Once more, you've convinced me that talking to you is a waste of my time. This time it took only two posts. I'm learning.

By the way, I am in fact currently engaged in the writing of a chapter for an international scientific monograph, slated for publication in the first half of 2016. I know exactly how to "do my own homework". I just doubt that you do.