2017 was our 20th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

Shop our online store for music lovers
SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Wessell Nickel & Gross
PianoForAll
(ad)
Best of Piano Buyer
 Best of Piano Buyer
(ad)
Faust Harrison Pianos
Faust Harrison 100+ Steinway pianos
Who's Online Now
68 members (Beowulf, Carey, anotherscott, 3x4rt, BbAltered, 23 invisible), 421 guests, and 403 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
#2295715 06/27/14 10:00 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
H
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
Hi all,
After MONTHS of deliberating replacing my Roland RD500 with something a bit more modern, I'd decided I was going to look at the Yamaha CLP440/470, and the Kawai CA65/95.
I’d also included the Roland HP506, the FP7F / 80, and the Kawai ES7 in the mix.

I decided I’d ideally love an acoustic piano, with a metronome (because playing to a beat is good practice).
I do most of my playing when everyone has gone to bed though, so it has to be a Digital Piano (I can’t justify the cost of a silent acoustic)
So my decision should be based on having a good acoustic alternative, and I shouldn’t be swayed by extra toys (so ruled out the portables).

I’d played the Roland HP506, the Kawai CA65, and the Yamaha CLP440.
For feel alone, the Kawai was a clear winner.
But then Yamaha brought out the new CLPs.

I couldn’t go buying a new piano without trying the new Yamahas.

So finally, I got to try the CA65 and the CLP545 side by side (they are both £1900 or close enough)

They both sound incredible, the differences are minimal (although I felt the Yamaha sounded a bit enclosed, like you’re listening to a speaker in a box, which I suppose you are. It was just a bit more noticeable on the CLP545). I did prefer the sound of the Kawai.

Yamaha have been clever by stating that you get TWO different grand Pianos to choose from. But I'm not swayed by clever marketing tricks. BOTH pianos have a number of different pianos to choose from. Yamaha have just chose to name theirs, while on the Kawai it’s piano 1, 2 3 etc.

The important thing for me was keyboard feel. The keys on both pianos feel excellent, and responded well (even to me playing), but going from one to another, the Kawai felt clearly better than the Yamaha.
Perhaps difficult to explain, but, the Yamaha felt like it had lighter keys that were heavier to play, while the Kawai had heavier keys that were lighter to play.
I’m sure this is down to key length, and pivot points etc.
But it felt like the Yamaha was a bit more “keyboard” like, while the Kawai could’ve convinced me I was playing a piano if I had my eyes closed.

Another point was graded key weighting, included on the CA65, but not on the Yamaha (and it’ll cost you £700 more to get this on the CLP575).
Not this this is a bad thing. Ideally all keys would feel the same. It’s another “defect” of modelling an acoustic piano, like let-of, but it means that your playing style is transferable to an acoustic piano, because your fingers expect it to feel the same.

Anyway, thought I’d throw this in here in case anyone else is deliberating the same.

Anyone got any thoughts on the shop price of £1911? Sounds fair to me.

Cheers,
Al.



Code monkey by day, aspiring pianist by night.
I started late, I've only been playing 7 years, but usually manage 1-2 hours a night.
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2295734 06/27/14 11:11 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 70
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 70
As an aside ... that is the one thing I find frustrating a little with these new Yamaha actions. They call them GH3X and NWX ... the X for escapement. But really the action varies from one NWX to another.

525 = GH3
535 = GH3X
545 = NWX
575 = 545 + 88 linear graded hammers + GP Response Pedal
585 = 575 + counter balances

(I will also add that at the 575 level it brings in "VRM" which is probably a different set of recordings which could impact the sound quite a bit.)

Curious ... did you get a chance to play the 470? It is also supposed to have "Natural Wood" + 88 linear graded hammers + GP Response Pedal. With the 470 being "discontinued" you may get a good deal.

Anyway ... it "sounds" (pun intended) like the CA65 is the clear winner "hear".

Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2295742 06/27/14 11:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
H
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
I think the CLP470 would have been an option as they’re so heavily discounted right now. But I’ve not had the chance to play it.
I like the look of the new Yamahas now they have followed Kawai in moving the buttons to the side of the keyboard. Much prettier.
I think their marketing of having slightly better keyboards between each model is clever, you’ll always end up paying a bit more to get the next model up.
Just need to get in to the shop now and hand over the cash.

they are both very very close, and sound-wise, there's very little in it. I just preferred the Kawai sounds.


Code monkey by day, aspiring pianist by night.
I started late, I've only been playing 7 years, but usually manage 1-2 hours a night.
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2295750 06/27/14 11:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 286
E
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
E
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 286
Hello
I found all these posts about action little bit funny at the end, as they show how it is a personal feeling
I have owned a CA93, and now I have a VPC1 and a N2
I was curious about the new Yamaha 500 lines, and went to my local piano shop to try the 575 (I wanted to test the 585 but it was no more available)
I found its actions extremely good, superior to the VPC1 (more realistic) and quite close to my N2.
I was really surprised of that as it felt so 'natural' for me
So, either, as said by Theoak, actions differs between models even if they are labeled the same name, or the perception is really a matter of personal feeling.
I must say that I used to like the Kawai action until I got my N2, now, the VPC1 action seems quite 'fake' for me...really good in terms of responsiveness and for getting a fine sound control, but no as a real acoustic at all, as my N2 can be.....
Now I am curious about the 585 which, on the paper, should be even better.

Please also note that I have never tried other Yamaha actions like GH3(x)...so I cannot compare to other models


Music is a lifestyle
(Happy Yamaha N2 and Roland FP90 owner)
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2295772 06/27/14 12:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
H
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
Yeah, having read a few posts, I'm of the opinion that the choice of preferred action comes down to what you play most and feel happier playing on before you go and try something new in the shop.

Also, regarding the price, I've noticed "that German place" is a bit crafty with their Euro - Pounds conversion, and advertised price.
They have it listed as £1750 (so I'm thinking blimey that's £150 cheaper), but adding in the fee for buying in Euros, and the current exchange rate for debit card Euro purchases, they come out at £1940, more expensive than the local shop! which I thought was a bit cheeky


Code monkey by day, aspiring pianist by night.
I started late, I've only been playing 7 years, but usually manage 1-2 hours a night.
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2295822 06/27/14 02:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,171
1000 Post Club Member
Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,171
Originally Posted by Hoppyfrog
Yamaha have been clever by stating that you get TWO different grand Pianos to choose from. But I'm not swayed by clever marketing tricks. BOTH pianos have a number of different pianos to choose from. Yamaha have just chose to name theirs, while on the Kawai it’s piano 1, 2 3 etc.

The Yamaha has 2 QUALITY 88-key sampled grand piano samples to choose from.

The Kawai has Concert Grand 1 (HI-XL) and 2 (HI). Both are from the same piano type (possibly the same piano?), but 2 is lower quality, with very obvious stretching, and sounds more distant. There is also Studio (bright), Mellow (mellow), and Jazz (pretty much identical to Concert), which seem to be processed variants on the Concert Grand samples. And a few others like Upright (also stretched).

So it is not a marketing trick; you are actually getting extra value with the Yamaha with the two distinct 88-key samples from different grand piano types.

Quote
Another point was graded key weighting, included on the CA65, but not on the Yamaha (and it’ll cost you £700 more to get this on the CLP575).

Actually the Yamaha's keys are graded (GH stands for "Graded Hammer"). The difference is that standard graded actions (including Roland, Kawai etc) are graded in 4 sections. The "88-key Linear Graded Hammers", for which you're paying extra in the CLP575, is graded on every key. You probably don't need that.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian, Bluethner / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2295865 06/27/14 04:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
H
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
Good point. Yes, I definitely don't need (can't justify) the cost of individually weighted keys, nice as that sounds.
I'm probably ruined by playing my Roland as to what action feels nicer (or more similar to what I'm playing)

Originally, and probably still, I'm impressed by the idea of having TWO hugely expensive top end grand pianos in my living room, and I'm sure they've done a fine job sampling them. They sounded superb, and very distinct.
I resolved it by thinking, well, these aren't the actual pianos, they're sampled, with a huge amount of digital signal processing, to give a good approximation to them, and yes, you get two very different sounds, but really, the main difference is the source of the original samples.
After they get those samples into a computer, the quality of the end sound is a product of whatever electronic witchcraft they apply, and this is true in the case of the Kawai too.
I'm happy with having a few different piano sounds, and I'm not too hung up on them being from distinctly different sources. Given that if I'd bought an acoustic, I'd have just one piano sound.

I'm probably, maybe, going to buy tomorrow, so all of these thoughts are going round my head right now


Code monkey by day, aspiring pianist by night.
I started late, I've only been playing 7 years, but usually manage 1-2 hours a night.
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
theoak #2295869 06/27/14 05:09 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,363
J
2000 Post Club Member
Offline
2000 Post Club Member
J
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,363
Originally Posted by theoak
As an aside ... that is the one thing I find frustrating a little with these new Yamaha actions. They call them GH3X and NWX ... the X for escapement. But really the action varies from one NWX to another.

525 = GH3
535 = GH3X
545 = NWX
575 = 545 + 88 linear graded hammers + GP Response Pedal
585 = 575 + counter balances

(I will also add that at the 575 level it brings in "VRM" which is probably a different set of recordings which could impact the sound quite a bit.)

Curious ... did you get a chance to play the 470? It is also supposed to have "Natural Wood" + 88 linear graded hammers + GP Response Pedal. With the 470 being "discontinued" you may get a good deal.

Anyway ... it "sounds" (pun intended) like the CA65 is the clear winner "hear".


Last week I played the Yamaha clp575 and the clp545.......I was really impressed........The Bösendorfer sample........so nice........Yamaha did a great job.

My clp320, five years old......needs an update next year......I know what to do......

Best regards,
Johan B

Last edited by Johan B; 06/27/14 06:37 PM.

[Linked Image]
Kawai CA95SB (Previous:Yamaha CLP320PE & DGX620)
Motto's:
'Music is a way of living' & 'Nil volentibus arduum'
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2296164 06/28/14 01:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
Originally Posted by Hoppyfrog
Yeah, having read a few posts, I'm of the opinion that the choice of preferred action comes down to what you play most and feel happier playing on before you go and try something new in the shop.

Also, regarding the price, I've noticed "that German place" is a bit crafty with their Euro - Pounds conversion, and advertised price.
They have it listed as £1750 (so I'm thinking blimey that's £150 cheaper), but adding in the fee for buying in Euros, and the current exchange rate for debit card Euro purchases, they come out at £1940, more expensive than the local shop! which I thought was a bit cheeky


If you use the right card it should not cost you to buy in Euros!! They also use the market rate which is way higher then the tourist rate.

I use the halifax credit card, but the nationwide credit card works as well.

I have just bought soem playmobile from amazon.de- I was not charged for paying in euros and it was about £10 cheaper then UK prices.


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2296845 06/30/14 05:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
H
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
So...
I went ahead and bought the CA65!

After a visit back to the shop this weekend and a final go, I was happy with the Kawai

I bought from the shop and paid their asking price, plus a fee to have it assembled (I've a daughter who would make assembly at home a challenge, so I'm cheating and getting it done for me).

The other reason for not buying from the internet is, without us buying from the shops we try in, eventually those shops will disappear, or get harder to find.
I know, I'm a bit of a hippy.


Code monkey by day, aspiring pianist by night.
I started late, I've only been playing 7 years, but usually manage 1-2 hours a night.
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2296856 06/30/14 07:12 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
M
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
M
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 278
Hi,

Well done I am sure you will enjoy your piano!!


http://www.scoreexchange.com/profiles/NigelFletcher

Dexibell P7 Kawai ES110 Yamaha PSR-S770
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2296866 06/30/14 07:59 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,923
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 16,923
Hoppyfrog, cpngrats on your purchase, and good on you for supporting local business.

Cheers,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2297175 07/01/14 03:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 43
C
cub Offline
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
C
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 43
Congrats on your new instrument hoppyfrog!! I hope you find it a worthy replacement of your RD500. Its sounds like you were very pleased with the Kawai action and sound. I hope it goes well for you!

Cub.

Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2297195 07/01/14 06:03 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
H
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
H
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 10
Thanks all. Really looking forward to getting my hands on it when it's delivered.
On paper, I'd have gone for the Yamaha (and if I had the cash, I'd have one of each).
But it just goes to show how important getting to experience the instrument first hand is compared to reading the spec sheet and watching demos on YouTube.

On that note, I'd like to see a few more user reviews of pianos on YouTube, rather than the manufacturer ones (for which Yamaha are lacking).

Now I just need to find a home for my old Roland.


Code monkey by day, aspiring pianist by night.
I started late, I've only been playing 7 years, but usually manage 1-2 hours a night.
Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Johan B #2305299 07/22/14 11:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 70
T
Full Member
Offline
Full Member
T
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 70
Originally Posted by Johan B

...
Last week I played the Yamaha clp575 and the clp545.......I was really impressed........The Bösendorfer sample........so nice........Yamaha did a great job.

My clp320, five years old......needs an update next year......I know what to do......

Best regards,
Johan B


Johan,

Just curious, did you notice a difference from an action perspective between the 575 and 545? The difference being the "linear graded hammers".

Thanks ...

Re: Yamaha CLP545 vs Kawai CA65
Hoppyfrog #2305382 07/22/14 01:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4
B
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4
Congrats on the purchase. I'm going through the same ... new Yamaha cop-545 or new Roland HP-506. Keep going back and forth ... and driving lots of miles to do so. If I had hair, I'd be pulling it out. I think it's time to take another player with me for a second opinion.


Moderated by  Piano World 

Link Copied to Clipboard
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq Karsten Collection
(ad)
PianoDisc

PianoDisc
(ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Mason & Hamlin Pianos
What's Hot!!
News from the Piano World
Our October 2020 Free Piano Newsletter is Here!
---------------------
3,000,000+!
------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
New Topics - Multiple Forums
The problem of ear to hand
by John 656 - 10/30/20 01:25 PM
Bluthner upright pianos
by Starre - 10/30/20 12:49 PM
Tuning Pin Bushings Prevent Glue Seepage
by Duaner - 10/30/20 12:46 PM
Gospel-Jazz Chord Progression & Scale
by BB666 - 10/30/20 07:33 AM
Download Sheet Music
Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads
Forum Statistics
Forums41
Topics202,491
Posts3,018,761
Members99,068
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
Please Support Our Advertisers


Faust Harrison 100+ Steinways

Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver

 Best of Piano Buyer

PianoTeq Bechstein
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers

Virtual Sheet Music - Classical Sheet Music Downloads



 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2020 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.4