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Very nice. Has to be the fastest fitting of block to plate flange in history. Must have blinked.

Here you go Will,


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Nice jig Jim

Yes: we did controlled tests, first to cause falseness, then to prevent it from happening. Any banging/bending on the wire will introduce falseness--unfortunately, this includes levelling the strings.

It stands to reason that it is best not to have to do very much string levelling, if at all possible. The best way to approach that objective is to ensure that the strings are installed following the same path, with no twists and turns. I recommend bending the wire so both sides follow the same natural curvature (i.e., a half circle), installing it in the piano so that the ends point towards the plate (i.e., and upside-down U), and then making the beckets/coils on the left side of the strings (i.e, NOT with the natural downwards curvature of the wire).

Resist the temptation to bang and yank on things, and the problem will go away...until the wire degrades naturally with age.

That procedure produces a very clean tone, with no/minimal falseness, and a very consistent string level.

443,

Interesting. I'm having trouble seeing what you are recommending from the words...

Maybe a pic??? or did you have a pic on that thread you started a while ago?

Let me try to rephrase...For the treble, the hitch shares 2 notes. Wire taken off the coil has a curvature which resembles a half circle. Bend that half-circle around a pin and you now have 2 half-circles facing in opposite directions, somewhat along the plane of the strings, and somewhat up or down depending on how you orient it on the hitch. I let the curve go up, as its easier to handle when coiling, and coil on the right side of the pins, mainly going with the string's opinion of where it wants to go given its natural curvature.

You are saying turn the orientation down. I can see how this might change the orientation of the natural curvature as it goes over the capo, tending to straighten out the natural curvature. What does the making the becket from the left side accomplish?

Interesting.

Jim Ialeggio

443,

I found that thread and pic, but the pic shows the wire curving up not down??? is the description off or the pic not what you mean?



JI

I'll bend some wire in sequence and take some pictures, so that the progression makes more sense...

However, for now:
I start with a O [string shape] and bend it so it makes two CC [string shapes] going in the same exact direction (i.e., installed facing downwards). The bend to the Left--instead of with the natural curvature of the wire downwards--is to prevent the resultant 1/4 twist necessary to then put the becket into the tuning pin! These bends are what helps force the wires run straight/parallel throughout the entire length of the string, in the same way, on both string segments.

I used to install with the CC segments facing upwards--simply because it was convenient. But, recently I reconsidered that installing it facing downwards means that it could also potentially help with the prevention of an earlier onset of capo buzzing (i.e., the wire along the capo bend naturally resists that direction of bend and produces a more of a U vs. V shape with the inversion of the wire's natural curvature).

To Jim - thanks for your pictures. As usual, an elegant and simple jig from you. Why would I expect any different?

I built a very similar jig to this a couple of years ago, based on pictures of one that I had seen on Michael Spreeman's website for Ravenscroft pianos, and emailed Michael and asked some questions. My slider and track was a drawer slide (which runs on ball bearings. I was using a small air grinder as my drill.)

The difference between mine and yours was that I was using mine to drill in the piano. It was just too big and awkward and slow to feel all that comfortable using it again.

What you have done is to build a dedicated drill press for drilling outside the piano. Since you are doing R,C, & S boards, it is ideal for the task.

Did you add a depth stop to your jig? I didn't see one.

Thanks for sharing,

Will

And Jim - more explanation on your "multiple pecks" method, if you please.

And your layout efforts too.

I have struggled to rid my rebuilds of falseness also. I have come to believe that the quality of the wire itself has been part of the problem, particularly as the wire sizes get much smaller in the high treble.

Since I have been using Paulello wire in the various types throughout the entire piano, the unisons are VERY clean. This has been noticed and remarked on by others who have heard the pianos. The wire is so good it makes you want to do your best bridge work.

Will

Isaac, could you please explain more fully your "double pointing"? I am having trouble envisioning what you are talking about.

Thanks,

Will

Hello, I believe it is necessary, jig or no.

A first marquing with a pointed punch or the tool with 3points to locate the pins hole (sold by Renner for instance, a set with 2points, 3points, different spacings)

So, that tool is used vertically.

Then with a single point punch a tap is done with the pin orientation, so the conical hole is well oriented and the drill does not slip.

Regards

Pecking is the machinist lingo for plunging and retracting the bit several times per hole to clear the bit. One can't peck a precise hole by hand, or at least I can't...each time in, the angle changes and the top of the hole, which is the important part, becomes oblong.

The technique I was taught to avoid pecking, was to run the bit wildly fast to clear chips, but that just burns bits if you feed one hole too slowly. Then subsequent holes with the burnt bit, before you realized it was burnt and then didn't have another one anyway, means the rest of the holes change size from previous to the burn. With this jig, the slowed down rotation and the pecking, there is no burning, and the consistency of the pin fit was way beyond what I was able to do before.

Drilling this way is slower than what I've seen guys do free-hand, but clarity up here in the treble is so important to me, time spent here, in my opinion, is well spent.

My first version of this jig used a drawer slide as well, but it was a miserable failure. The slide has way too much slop and actually accentuated the drill bit wander as it entered the hole. The linear bearing I used is by Igus.com located in RI.

I'll take a pic of my layout tools

Glad to hear you are struggling with falseness too...well not glad, but misery loves company. I have not used the Paullelo past the 4th octave yet, but may give it a try as well. I use it throughout the wraps and nickel plated up through the mid-tenor so far.

Oh, and regrading the depth stop, no I tried it and didn't like it. I just flag the bit and drill a bit deeper than I will be setting the pin. The reasoning here is Nossaman's, ie that the pin is going to migrate up and down anyway, so bottoming the pin in the hole seems to be a complication that is not worth the effort, at least in my current thinking.

Jim Ialeggio

Isaac, that is the way I have been doing it. I thought you meant something else.

Jim, I am a bit confused by the pecking method you describe as pertains to your jig. Your jig looks like it would have to be hand fed unless I am missing something, but you say that hand feeding is not accurate enough. Or do you mean that you can handfeed your jig into the cap accurately enough to peck properly?

I too have burnt bits and then they clog, running at too high speeds. What speed is your Foredom running at approximately?

My drawer slide guide also suffers from slop in the bearing track when pressure is put on it.

I agree that the shape and consistency of size of the entrance for the bridge pin hole is very important. And I think the hardness of the capping surface is very important too. I too have been using maple laminated caps (with Unibond 800 as the glue). Since it is a laminate, there is no reason to not experiment with harder veneers as the top laminate or two. I have played with Ipe, but it is too difficult to work with. I want to get some Goiabao from Herzog veneers and experiment with that. I have been able to notch laminates by hand, using VERY sharp chisels.

I have not used the nickel yet - it is insanely expensive. But I have used the polished. I now have 29 (count em!)sizes and types of the M, O, 1, and XM. Mostly M and O. Just adding them as the scaling tells me I need them.

It is my experience that using the Paulello wire in the top half of the piano does add clarity and color, and will blend the registers better, even when the wire sizes or type otherwise do not change. The ears of others confirm that observation. I think it will give your ear more of what it wants to hear.

I am eager to use this wire on smaller pianos. I think it really expands our horizons in ways that have not been available before.

Thanks, I'll check out Igus.com for the linear bearings.

Will

Here are the bridge pin marking tools.

I have a whole series of them graduated for different pin sizes and graduated front/back pin distances from 10mm high treble to 15mm end of long bridge...18-20mm bass bridge. They are laid out in autocad and run on the bridgeport so no matter what the front/back distance is, and no matter what pin size is being used for that unison, I end up with a consistent 13 deg string termination at the bridge.

I have a series of these targeting 10 deg termination angle, but found, prior to using the present drilling jig, that the 10 degs autocad layout actually ended up about 7 deg, which I took to be contributing to falseness in the high treble. I may be fingering that less than 10 termination angle incorrectly as contributing to falseness, but that is how I'm proceeding at this point, pending clearer evidence of how to clean up that high treble.

The current drilling protocol, with the epoxy/veneer lam cap, #6pins trough most of the long bridge,careful stringing, 13 deg termination at the pins, close 10-12mm front/back pin distance in the high treble is getting my best yet trebles clarity. There are still a few stragglers, and I'm gun'in for them with whatever ammunition I can muster!







Jim Ialeggio

I mean I'm avoiding holding the drill and creating the angle by hand and eye, letting the jig do all the guiding. To actually plunge the bit into the wood, gravity does the trick, mostly. I may apply some plunge force by hand with larger bits, but the holes remain straight and consistent, because the motion of the drill is consistent, straight and in plane with the motion of the bearing.

So I let the jig very slowly enter the marked hole, resisting the pull of gravity with my finger on the carriage until the initial hole entry is cut true, then let gravity take over. I adjust the foot pedal speed just fast enough to get chips expelling. The speed will differ with different size bits...small bits seem to clear chips at a slower speed than larger bits. I watch the chips by eye and feel and adjust the foot pedal as necessary. I usually find a shim placed under the foot pedal for each drill size mostly gets the right speed for that bit. Partially down the drilled hole, if I feel the expelled chips are slowing down or getting stuck lower in the hole, I retract the sliding carriage, let the chip spin clear, and let gravity take the bit back into the hole. This retract and resume of the plunge is the "peck"

Jim Ialeggio

Jim, do you use specific drill bits for wood? Their hélicoïdal shape get the chops out efficiently.

Nothing as usual metal bits.
Then no clogging or undue heating.

I understand you do not like to be given advice or information from elsewhere, or from foreign piano design people. This seem to be a common "admirable" attitude. Personally I found worth and very useful to avoid reinvent things that where yet analyzed and understood to some point.
That allows to have benefit from old timers and avoid experiment too much on customers pianos, so I stick with that attitude and remain only vigilant, but I noticed that the most vociferous piano people are strongly reaffirming things with no much desire for contradiction, so I did a full step on the side from there.

And go back to reading, seminars and exchange with traditionally trained piano builders. Hopefully most of the basic concepts they learned are simple enough to be understood at large.

Most advances are on some "detail points" today, some being more important than others.

Foundations for high quality seem to relate still to very old process that where refined.

End of rant. If it was one!

Olek,
This is how I punch the bridge before drilling. Then I use high-helix parabolic bits in my variable speed, air powered drill. The pattern is laid out on masking tape and meticulously corrected for uniform position and speaking length to provide the most uniform pin placement I can derive from the original pattern and the existing plate.

And you still have slipping bits?

The small bits I have for wood will heat in glue, but they are very sharp and the chips are immediately extracted. So they follow nicely the pointing, even free hand.

Yes Paulello M in high treble is more coherently consistance in tone (brillancy)

As they are a little stronger than Roseau that can help of course. I find them to stabilize extremely fast, also.

Then, the tone have less "meat" more "finesse" it is a style in itself.

Regards

Actually, Isaac, I never said they were skipping or sliding. Only that if the drill bit was not dead center in the index hole that the drill bit would flex. How much will be determined by how far off you are from center. Since the drill will more or less self correct the angle as you go deeper into the wood, that means the angle will vary. That introduces the opportunity for the hole to oblongate at the top - where it most needs to be consistently sized and rounded to most tightly grip the pin that will be driven into it.

For that reason, any methodology that would be more likely to provide a straight path would be most desirable. And Jim is most generously sharing his latest methodology, which I find very intriguing.

Will

Hi Ed:

This is what I have used to lay out bridges:
http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...elshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1
It is a thin vinyl drawer lining material that is white. It is self-adhesive, so you peel off the backing after cutting it roughly to shape on the bridge (the roll is 20" by 24 feet, and costs about 10 bucks). It is fairly thin, but you can lay it down without creases. Cut to shape with razor. Nice and visible for layout. If you make a mistake, peel it off before you commit and start over. When you are done, peels off easily as long as you don't leave it on several days. I like it and find it useful. I found it at my local Lowes.

Will