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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKVgv2IUOroGreat video! I was surprised to see the bridge pin holes were drilled by hand, but I suppose the angle is not that critical, right?
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Bridge pin lean angle determines string offset and plays a key roll in string termination. It is easy to elongate the holes with hand drilling making it possible to have a bit looser fit. False beats can happen with termination mistakes.
Bridge pins also determine string spacing.
Also as the bridge work is in your face when lid is open, inconsistencies are easy to pick out with the eye.
I would say that precision bridge work is very important.
x-rpt
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Bridge pin lean angle determines string offset and plays a key roll in string termination. It is easy to elongate the holes with hand drilling making it possible to have a bit looser fit. False beats can happen with termination mistakes.
Bridge pins also determine string spacing.
Also as the bridge work is in your face when lid is open, inconsistencies are easy to pick out with the eye.
I would say that precision bridge work is very important. Ok, so did I see that correctly? Because unlike the tuning pin holes, which were obviously drilled out at the correct angle with a drill press, it looked like the bridge pin holes were drilled out with a hand-held drill, unless I saw it wrong....
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Looked like hand drilling to me too
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Very nice video, but why not add a lot more explanation either orally or in print for those that are not technicians or are not too familiar with the process?
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I was surprised to see the bridge pin holes were drilled by hand, but I suppose the angle is not that critical, right? They are indeed very important, yet are often drilled with a hand-held power tool like that. Some rebuilders/manufacturers affix a gauge to the back of the tool so that they can better guesstimate the angle of attack. Small differences in the angles affect the side bearing, which in turn has implications on the tune-ability of the piano (i.e., the higher the side bearing, the more rendering is necessary during the tuning to ensure stability).
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In trying to assure trebles have as little falseness as possible, I've taken to being anal regarding all terminations. After several iterations, I now have a drill set up which guides a Foredom tool, running quite slow, in multiple "pecks" for consistency of angle and trueness of the hole. Its actually quite easy to drill a wandering hole with many small drill setups...especially by hand.
I drill (and notch) on the bench, and use a dedicated drill setup with linear bearings, layout the bridge pin offsets with a Bridgeport laid out starting hole jig. Cap is an epoxy saturated lamination of hard maple veneer which has to be notched on a notching machine.
I find the treble bridge pin drilling to be more difficult to pull off well than one might think, and hence the increased attention to this aspect of the work. Tenor and bass drilling, not as picky, but I still do it with the machine.
Also experimenting with Ed Mcmorrow's # 6 pins through much of the long bridge, quite tightly spaced in the treble = 10mm for and aft pins.
Jim Ialeggio
Last edited by jim ialeggio; 07/20/14 11:59 AM.
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Speaking of string falseness: beyond that which is created by tapping down on the speaking length at the bridge, the way those wires were installed actually ensures more falseness in the stings (i.e., one side was a 1/4 turn, and the other a 1/2 turn).
However, the way they trimmed the hammer shanks from the hammers was nicely thought out!
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I was surprised to see the bridge pin holes were drilled by hand, but I suppose the angle is not that critical, right? They are indeed very important, yet are often drilled with a hand-held power tool like that. Some rebuilders/manufacturers affix a gauge to the back of the tool so that they can better guesstimate the angle of attack. Small differences in the angles affect the side bearing, which in turn has implications on the tune-ability of the piano (i.e., the higher the side bearing, the more rendering is necessary during the tuning to ensure stability). Yes a support to guide the drill is certainly better, but with a double pointing of the hole (one vertical to locate it, then anothe slightly angled) you can have your drill correctly driven where you want it (not slipping on the surface) The same for pinblocks, they can be bored by hand. I think that is the way it is learned, to even make the parts and elements of the piano with minimal hand tools. factory setups may differ of course. I recall working on the assembly of small verticals (the parts came from different places) we drilled all pinblocks by hand, and it was not that bad, with the help f visuial gauges and the pin bushings.
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Like in the video, I notch the bridge in the piano. But I protect the surface of the soundboard from errant chisel action by having some SB panel scraps that I keep in front of the chisel. I also don't want the nose bolts in there while I am doing that for the same reason.
I could never drill a decent bridge with a hand held electric drill like they are using. Too massive. I use my air compressor to drive a very light weight drill modified for speed control.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
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Speaking of string falseness...the way those wires were installed actually ensures more falseness in the stings (i.e., one side was a 1/4 turn, and the other a 1/2 turn).
443, Have you done controlled test of this? On recalcitrant false strings, where I'm satisfied that the pin is okay, I've tried carefully restringing the note as you describe, but often get no improvement. Curious as to your method, and success rate...falseness can be a real pain, and sometimes after much messing about, I have to accept defeat. Machine drilling has helped in this regard. I've also noticed on pianos which clearly have machine drilled/notched laminate bridges, there is consistently very little falseness... Always interested in any tested perspective on this issue. Jim Ialeggio
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I enjoyed the video. It's a bit different in being a totally visual capsule of the rebuilding process. Perfect for those who are not in the biz to watch when they are contemplating the engagement of a rebuilder.
As far as I can tell, this is a vintage S&S-C, however there is a shot (or maybe more) which indicates that not all of what is presented is of the same piano.
Can you spot it?
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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There are many different pianos include in the video. I see M&H and Steinway both. Several different models also.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: toneman1@me.com
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One of the shots looks like a Mason Hamlin. Surprised by the amount of hand drilling.
Seiler 206, Chickering 145, Estey 2 manual reed organ, Fudge clavichord, Zuckerman single harpsichord, Technics P-30, Roland RD-100.
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I think that the Tension Resonator was a marvelous S&S achievement!  -  - 
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Great video!!
The background music not that great.
HW
"Respond intelligently, even to unintelligent treatment."
-Lao Tzu
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I think that one thing that has been left out of the discussion is how many factories have over many years used small electric hand drills such as we see in the pictures on the video. I remember seeing it done this way in the Sohmer factory, If memory serves me, Steinway was also doing it by hand 15 or 20 years ago. This method is very commonly used by rebuilders, including me (for 30 years or more). I have made drilling jigs and have not found one yet that truly suited me. If they are too large and heavy, they are unwieldly. I've drilled them on a drill press, and moving the bridge itself can be awkward. A pneumatic drill is nice for its small size, but I have found the air hose to be destabilizing because it tends to make the unit top heavy and wants to bear to one side or another. I think any angle jig that we might use needs to allow the entire set up to be small and light, because it is easier to control.
Jim, you build great jigs - can you post a picture of yours?
Another thing that has not been mentioned is how much flex there is in drill bits. If you are slightly off center to the hole index, the bit will find the hole, but the drill bit will flex and change the angle, with or without a guide. And by the way, that happens with tuning pin drills also, for the same reason. I did notice in the video that when he was drilling the pinblock in the piano, when he pressed the drill bit into the block as he was drilling, that I could see that his platform was flexing downward. This would change and increase the angle throughout the stroke. Whether that affects the tightness of the pinblock and consistency of torque I cannot say.
Will
fine grand piano custom rebuilding, piano technician and tuner
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The background music not that great.
The best thing about the background music was that it is totally dismissible. If it were a piano recording, I would have been wondering about the piano and pianist and not concentrating on the vid.
Marty in Minnesota
It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
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Hey there Will,
hmmm...I usually document this kind of thing...but I just checked the SD card and there's nothing there. I'll see if I can quickly rig the jig up a get a shot. I also now have a self feed drill head mounted on a steel pneumatically floated frame, for in the piano block and plate drilling, but I was saving that for a separate thread when I had some free time...huhh...
I completely agree about the way the bit wanders in a non guided hole. The wander follows the rotation of the bit. Its a real pain, though I don't think most folks are aware its happening. The smaller the bit, the worse it is. Same with the pin block drilling. If the bit is squealing, the bit ain't traveling straight in a straight hole.
None of this chat should be construed to be yanking on the folks in the video...its a nice job. My interest is in trading ideas with topics inspired by the video. I'll see if I can get some pics tonight.
Jim Ialeggio
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I think that one thing that has been left out of the discussion is how many factories have over many years used small electric hand drills such as we see in the pictures on the video. I remember seeing it done this way in the Sohmer factory, If memory serves me, Steinway was also doing it by hand 15 or 20 years ago. This method is very commonly used by rebuilders, including me (for 30 years or more). I have made drilling jigs and have not found one yet that truly suited me. If they are too large and heavy, they are unwieldly. I've drilled them on a drill press, and moving the bridge itself can be awkward. A pneumatic drill is nice for its small size, but I have found the air hose to be destabilizing because it tends to make the unit top heavy and wants to bear to one side or another. I think any angle jig that we might use needs to allow the entire set up to be small and light, because it is easier to control.
Jim, you build great jigs - can you post a picture of yours?
Another thing that has not been mentioned is how much flex there is in drill bits. If you are slightly off center to the hole index, the bit will find the hole, but the drill bit will flex and change the angle, with or without a guide. And by the way, that happens with tuning pin drills also, for the same reason. I did notice in the video that when he was drilling the pinblock in the piano, when he pressed the drill bit into the block as he was drilling, that I could see that his platform was flexing downward. This would change and increase the angle throughout the stroke. Whether that affects the tightness of the pinblock and consistency of torque I cannot say.
Will Will I gave you the solution above. Very efficient (and indispensable) Regards
Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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