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#2305786 - 07/23/14 07:50 AM Re: Fascinating Restoration Video [Re: Paul678]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 944
jim ialeggio Offline
500 Post Club Member
jim ialeggio  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 944
shirley, MA
Like I said above, I achieve consistent fit, now, by drilling with a rig that is capable of achieving consistency.

Regarding the fit, I think the criticality of the fit is register dependent. Same with the termination angle. In the bass and tenor low angles 7-10 deg seem to work fine without untoward beats or noise. The wiggle room in the 2 capo sections, and especially the top capo, as in everything in else up there, is reduced...they seem to be more picky.

Same for pin fit, I think. The big pins and higher tension wound strings require a reasonably snug but not overly tight fit...I use epoxy resin as a driving fluid on all pins as well. The reasoning on all of this is as tight without unnecessarily inducing pre-mature cracking.

Small #6's, epoxy driving fluid and snug but not so snug that you start bending pins. I think a tight fitting #6 has less tendency to split the cap as compared to a too snug #7 or larger. But the upper limit of snug on a #6 is limited by when you are too tight and start bending pins. I actually think, given this definition that the tightness of the 6's is in reality ends up being not all that super tight.

Its all relative to the circumference of the various pins, I think. Same with drilling...different size drills ask for different RPMs on a fast spiral bit.

I like the freezing idea.

Jim Ialeggio


Jim Ialeggio
www.grandpianosolutions.com
advanced soundboard and action redesigns
978 425-9026
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#2305871 - 07/23/14 10:46 AM Re: Fascinating Restoration Video [Re: Olek]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,336
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,336
Seattle, WA USA
OLEK,
Adequate experience has now been achieved regarding hard bridge pins. The jury has found a verdict of "guilty of metallic tone". Too much making of "illegal" L-modes. Hard bridge pins make the musical art a "public noiseance".


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2306033 - 07/23/14 03:58 PM Re: Fascinating Restoration Video [Re: Paul678]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
thanks for the update.. any source ? bridge agrafe as well impact the tone with some metallic ring.

This is an excerpt from a recent book (2000) but the technology may be a little dated. Anyway I find exceptional the description of the "stress shaping" for soundboard making and installation S&S style.
I do not build soundboards but the explanations are simple enough to understand the advantages and inconvenience of the different process possible.
It is striking that no one have something to say in that regard (I mean the ones I have send the translations)

I can understand that harer than wire bridge can cause trouble.In the en the small identation in the bridge pin is part of the "concept ".

Anyway I had the opportunity to (lightly) tap the bridge pins on different pianos an that lower the strings on many of them, re installing a clean but open tone, something I appreciate.

depending of the way the pins where shaped and installed, their reaction to wood contraction may differ.

My gut feeling say me that nailed pins are superior, but may be also if they have a round end and are installed without bottoming in the hole they can be efficient. (they need to be precisely leveled in that case, no filing) There I just don't know. The length of the pins probably matters too.

With all due respect.


In the design of the soundboard in practice, there are three options available with which the natural frequency of the soundboard can be influenced.
1 Frequency tuning by the shape of the soundboard
2 Frequency tuning by the soundboard thickness
3 Frequency tuning by the design of the strain (tension) ratios

Asymmetrically-spherical base convexity

There is here a method will be presented, with the appropriate choice by acting on the soundboard surface tension a specific frequency adjustment of the various lots to achieve. This requires an unequal distribution of the stresses in the board.
For the treble is aimed much tension, in contrast, little or no for bass. This is, however, preferably that those tensions do not cross, but along the fibers act as particularly effective with such longitudinal stresses affect the natural frequency that can.attain a resonance panel surface
etc...




Last edited by Olek; 07/23/14 04:04 PM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
#2306097 - 07/23/14 06:18 PM Re: Fascinating Restoration Video [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]  
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 420
WilliamTruitt Offline
Full Member
WilliamTruitt  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 420
New Hampshire
Ed, what is the most desirable hardness (Rockwell C scale?) and what available pins give this to us?

Will


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#2306259 - 07/24/14 01:20 AM Re: Fascinating Restoration Video [Re: Paul678]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,336
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,336
Seattle, WA USA
Will,
I don't have any Rockwell numbers. I just stay with the copper plated mild steel pins for now.

If you look with a magnifying glass at a removed Cu plated pin, you can see that the string is working into the plating. I don't see that on the nickel plated pins.


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2306393 - 07/24/14 09:55 AM Re: Fascinating Restoration Video [Re: Paul678]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
drill bits for wood - excellent chips extraction - easy to stay cold, go straight ahead !

[Linked Image]


Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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