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Hi,

We are in the process of buying a new piano for our daughter (4.5 years old). Both my husband and I don't play piano. So it is hard for us to judge which piano is better. We have to rely on outside information to make the decision. We bought the "The Piano book", went through all the local dealers here. Finally, the choices are:
Yamaha C2
Kawai RX2
Young Chang Pramberger

The prices they quoted us are: Yamaha: 17600$, Young chang: 16300$, and we have not got the price for Kawai RX2. My guess is that it will be close to Yamaha C2.

SO among those three, which one is better? Or is there a better one we missed that is in the similar price range. The price they gave us is negociable, but how much room are we talking about here? 20%. 30% or even more?

thanks in advance.

Ling

Ling,

Check out the Estonia 168. About the same price range but a much different sound, you might like it better

Get either one if you like partical board

See these:

• Price on Kawai RX-2
• Kawai RX-2
• Price check in aisle three, please. New Kawai RX-3

I was quoted $15.3k for a new, black Yamaha C2 about a year ago (before any negotiation) in the New England area.

Disclaimer: I own a Kawai piano (not RX-2), I have my Kawai bias, and I tend to pay more attention when Kawai prices get quoted on this Forum (as opposed to other brands' prices)

Good luck!

Agree with Frank. Estonia and Petrof both fall into that price range, and are generally considered to be better pianos than the 3 you listed. Check them out, but trust your own ears if you like the others better.

I don't think Estonia and Petrof are necessarily better pianos by virtue of quality, or consistency, or longevity: Yamaha and Kawai have a great reputation, and there is no denying that.

I don't know of any piano manufacturer that is not using "particle board" as JAmesH calls it, or more correctly, lumber-banded particle board or lumber-core plywood. Using solid wood to build case parts is not common practice, because it's much more likely to warp, and doesn't have the resilient strength of layered wood materials.

As Frank notes, you may find a preferable tone and touch in an Estonia, etc., but that's an issue that is more subjective than build quality. And be advised, in some regions, the names "Estonia" and "Petrof" are almost meaningless to the average piano buyer, and if you're concerned with resalability the name "Yamaha" is going to give you the best potential advantage.

Myself, I prefer a Kawai. At least check out the RX-2. Even if you and your husband don't play, you can still sit there for a while and doodle around on just the white keys, playing up and down the keyboard, using the left and right pedals, experimenting and getting enough of a feel for the piano to compare it to another one.

Play up and down the keyboard, too, all 88 keys. That will also help you in your comparison shopping. Don't be intimidated by the fact that you're not an accomplished pianist, or worry about the salesman's opinion of your playing.

You don't need a driver's license to test drive a piano, you know.

Jimbo,

Good points - I knew that my statement wouldn't go unchallenged, and I don't necessarily disagree with you. But a question like Ling's usually causes someone to recommend The Piano Book, in which Ling will see that Estonia and Petrof are a tier above Yamaha C, Kawai RX, and YCP. Rather than turning this into yet another thread that argues the merits of those rankings, I decided, based on that information AND my impression of the general sentiments of this forum, to simply say that Estonia and Petrof are GENERALLY considered to be better pianos. I considered adding a further qualifier that it's a very close call, but decided that my last comment about personal preference would suffice.

The piano that sounds better probably is. Quote by Arthur Rubinstein (I think).

I would think that at these prices you should be able to buy the Pramberger JP185, a 6'1" piano (as opposed to the 5'8 C2 and the 5'10"? RX2)of comparable quality. It also has quite a different tone quality that many prefer.

Thanks all for your inputs.
We will check out the Petrof, we did not find any Estonia in the dealers we have visited.

We got the price for RX2, it is 1000$ more than the Yamaha C2.

From what I read so far, I like RX2, now it all comes down to the price.

Any tip on the negotiation?


PS: we certainly will take Jimbo's suggestion to sit there and play those pianos.

My daughter will start her piano lesson once we get the piano into the door. And I plan to learn along with her. But from what I have heard, she will be way ahead of me pretty quick.

thanks all

Ling

Buy a much less expensive upright from the dealer that sells brands you like with a guarantee you can trade it in for some percentage of new value for a grand piano later - if your daughter decides she likes to play the piano. This will save you over $10K and she can help you decide later.

(My apologies to the dealers on this thread.)

James,

There is no particle board in a Kawai RX series grand piano.

Don Mannino RPT
Kawai America

I must second the idea of looking at some quality vertical pianos. Spend the extra money on a good teacher, more frequent lessons etc. If in a few years your daughter really enjoys playing the piano, you can trade up to a really first rate grand. Is there a reason you are looking for a grand in that price range?

Maybe for the same reason Bill Clinton gave for his dalliance with an intern...

"I did it because I could."

Heck, if I could throw down $20K for a piano, do you think the thought of buying a vertical would even cross my mind? Nah.

If Ling's husband is able do it, more power to him. What if he actually started out planning to buy a Steinway D, and decided it would be more practical to negotiate a good deal on a cheapy first (like an RX-2, maybe)--and then trade up later to the D if his daughter decides she really likes playing piano? Hmmmm? Ever think of that?

Grotriman, apology accepted. Your punishment: 6 months of Chopin Etudes on an old Lester spinet. Yes, one with plastic elbows. :p

Jimbo,

Thanks for making that point, I was just about to write essentially the same thing.

I purchased an RX-2 about 3 months ago and managed a price below $16,000.

Of course, negotiation highly depends on the dealer. One area dealer quoted a price ABOVE the "sticker" price in the Piano Book and when I suggested that a somewhat lower price was appropriate, was essentially told that a lower price was impossible.

When I went to another dealer (that I found much more helpful), their "list" prices were MUCH lower. After a bit of friendly talking and playing the pianos (actually not playing as I can't play, but rather just hitting keys and comparing sound) I told him I was ready to buy an RX-2 if I got a price I liked (by this time I was certain the Kawai was what I wanted). He asked what price I would like and I told him (based, I might add, on research done here!) that I would like to buy in the "fifteens". He checked with the store owner and came back with a price in the fifteens. I suspect that at that point I might have nickel and dimed him for a few more dollars, but I had already determined from our conversation that this dealer would give me quick delivery, good service, and was enjoyable to deal with-- why blow that for an extra $100?

I think one key to this successful negotiation is that the price I started with was reasonable. Obviously, I would have liked to buy an RX-2 for $10,000 but that wasn't a reasonable offer.

Robert

The prices Ling quoted (C2 for $176000 and RX-2 being $1000 more than that) seems high for basic black pianos for those models... so I suppose it should be mentioned that non-black pianos with wood finish or other casing/furniture styles will cost more depending on the finish/furniture style. Just in case Ling was looking at non-black pianos, she shouldn't be mislead to think that she's been quoted unfair prices just because we're comparing prices to black pianos (with a black non-adjustable wooden bench). We also do not know Ling's location (prices do vary from one place to another) and whether those numbers include various taxes and delivery charges.

I thought about the trade-up. But the dealer said when we do the trade-up, they will use the list price instead of some price that we can negotiate.

Why not a good upright and save 10K?

Our floor plan is quite unique. It is 2.5 story, and there is one quite open space between the first and second floor, it is perfect for a grand piano. And actually the builder calls it music room. So my husband insists on a grand instead of upright. And I don't want a bottom line grand. That is how we ended up here. I guess we have to save this 10K somewhere else. ( like my husband's next car)

But if we can not get the price we wanted, then we have to search for a used one.

By the way, we are in Texas.

Ling

Something tells me if you phrase it this way to yor husband, you may just get your upright

Spend 10k more on a piano, spend 10k less on a car. Sounds basic to me. What's the question?!!