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Mason & Hamlin BB fair price #2299621
07/07/14 06:01 PM
07/07/14 06:01 PM
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Bellevue, WA
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benjamink Offline OP
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Hi all,

I'm in the process of selecting a piano. I've tried tons of new and used pianos and the one I like the most (that I can afford) is a new Mason & Hamlin BB in Seattle, WA. The dealer is asking ~45k. Does anyone think there is room for negotiation on this price? http://www.bluebookofpianos.com/pin.html#Mason & Hamlin lists 45k as well, but I thought these were typically the "marked up prices". However, the price at pianobuyer.com is much higher. In short, I'm unclear on what a fair price is for a new Mason and Hamlin BB.

Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
Piano accessories and music gift items
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2299640
07/07/14 06:51 PM
07/07/14 06:51 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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On the whole, "Piano Buyer" is more up to date on pricing.

I don't know the pricing in Seattle, but around here, that would be a jaw-droppingly good price on a new BB. But, negotiations are standard practice at most dealerships.

Keep us posted. That's a great piano!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2299641
07/07/14 06:52 PM
07/07/14 06:52 PM
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Rochester MN
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Oh - Welcome to Piano World!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2299672
07/07/14 09:41 PM
07/07/14 09:41 PM
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Quito, Ecuador - South America
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For what is worth, 45k$ is 32% below Larry Fine's SMP of 66.3k$, so on that basis, it seems like a fair price to me.

Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2299677
07/07/14 10:02 PM
07/07/14 10:02 PM
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Bellevue, WA
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Thanks for the responses. Thanks for the clarification on the prices of bluebookofpianos.com.

Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2299712
07/08/14 01:29 AM
07/08/14 01:29 AM
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musicpassion Offline
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In my opinion 45k for a new BB is a good price in most markets.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: musicpassion] #2299838
07/08/14 10:37 AM
07/08/14 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by musicpassion
In my opinion 45k for a new BB is a good price in most markets.
Particularly when you consider that a new Steinway B costs more than twice that amount ....and the difference between the two instruments is negligible. smile

Last edited by carey; 07/08/14 02:50 PM.

Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300196
07/09/14 09:19 AM
07/09/14 09:19 AM
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But one can find a perfect used or vintage Steinway B for that amount as well.




Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: Miguel Rey] #2300234
07/09/14 11:13 AM
07/09/14 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Miguel Rey
But one can find a perfect used or vintage Steinway B for that amount as well.

Or a perfect used or vintage Mason & Hamlin for commensurately less. smile

Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300243
07/09/14 11:45 AM
07/09/14 11:45 AM
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Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Originally Posted by lotsofquestions
I've tried tons of new and used pianos and the one I like the most (that I can afford) is a new Mason & Hamlin BB in Seattle, WA.

It seems to have already been considered.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300392
07/09/14 05:35 PM
07/09/14 05:35 PM
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Southwestern Ontario
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Originally Posted by lotsofquestions
Hi all,

I'm in the process of selecting a piano. I've tried tons of new and used pianos and the one I like the most (that I can afford) is a new Mason & Hamlin BB in Seattle, WA.


If you like the sound, get it. You won't find a better quality or sounding piano than an M&H you like. ( It was the same for me. I wanted a new S&S B, tried Boses and Fazs as well, but fell in love a particular, new M&H BB of the three BBs I tried. None of the other brands came even close to the sound - for me.)

Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300423
07/09/14 07:36 PM
07/09/14 07:36 PM
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I purchased a 2004 Mason-Hamlin BB a couple of years ago from Cunningham's Piano in Philadelphia. You might check with them to see if they have a recent BB available. You might get a pretty great piano for a good deal less. I don't know what the price would be for a new one, but mine is in perfect condition and after you own a new one for a while, it would be used just like mine. I can tell you I really am pleased with my BB and it compares very favorably with Steinways. I know--my daughter has a Steinway which I have played for several years before buying my Mason-Hamlin.

Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300430
07/09/14 07:46 PM
07/09/14 07:46 PM
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Seattle Area
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Markarian Offline
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I think I played the one you're looking at. Lovely action, but a really mellow sound, presumably due to new hammers. I was impressed, tho.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300446
07/09/14 08:19 PM
07/09/14 08:19 PM
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Bellevue, WA
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For those curious the reasons I like this one are:
1. Amazing action. Additionally, I would expect it to remain relatively consistent over time due to it being composite.
2. Resonant and round bass tone. If you blindfolded me, I would guess that it was a nine foot piano based on this.
3. Mellow and warm sound for the tenor through the treble.
4. The dampers seem to be in perfect alignment for half pedaling (the bass lasts a little longer than the treble when slowly releasing the damper pedal). Amazingly, I've found this to be wildly inconsistent on even new pianos - I've run into this issue at multiple dealers.

Markarian - you brought up an interesting point about the mellow sound.
Is M&H known for going considerably brighter/edgy than other pianos over time? Is this something that the occasional voicing would not be able to control (I've played a few older Yamaha's that just could not be voiced to my satisfaction)? Possibly worth noting that I typically play about 1-2 hours a day ranging from Liszt to jazz standards.

Also, in regards to Cunningham's Pianos (or other locations), I'd prefer to keep my search near Seattle.

Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300459
07/09/14 08:49 PM
07/09/14 08:49 PM
Joined: May 2012
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Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Hi lots,

Though not addressed to me, I would like to express an opinion about Masons in general.

As you hear, they don't have an overly bright, edgy sound and were never meant to be that way. They have true tonal depth which doesn't require a hyped sharpness to sing. Unfortunately, there are many brands which hold the "brightness factor" to be the ultimate tonal palette of the instrument. Thankfully, M&H is not one of them.

It's true that pianos do brighten up as they are played. However, with normal/home use, that takes years. If, and when, you start to notice it is getting 'bright,' a voicing is usually all that is needed. Years into the future, when new hammers are needed, you need to find a technician who doesn't have some bizarre idea that it would sound better as something it was not intended to be.

With a piano of this quality, I would suggest that you are careful to choose a tuner/tech with considerable experience with Masons and understands their voice. Please run away from someone who is trying to convince you that "they can make it even better." If you like what you have purchased, why experiment?

I want to commend you on your knowledge of proper pedaling and what to expect from a well adjusted/regulated damper mechanism. Check the piano to see if the una corda has the same sensitive response.

Keep us posted.



Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2300473
07/09/14 09:30 PM
07/09/14 09:30 PM
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California, USA
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musicpassion Offline
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty

As you hear, they don't have an overly bright, edgy sound and were never meant to be that way. They have true tonal depth which doesn't require a hyped sharpness to sing. Unfortunately, there are many brands which hold the "brightness factor" to be the ultimate tonal palette of the instrument. Thankfully, M&H is not one of them.

It's true that pianos do brighten up as they are played. However, with normal/home use, that takes years. If, and when, you start to notice it is getting 'bright,' a voicing is usually all that is needed. Years into the future, when new hammers are needed, you need to find a technician who doesn't have some bizarre idea that it would sound better as something it was not intended to be.

With a piano of this quality, I would suggest that you are careful to choose a tuner/tech with considerable experience with Masons and understands their voice. Please run away from someone who is trying to convince you that "they can make it even better." If you like what you have purchased, why experiment?

+1
Well said, Marty!


Pianist and Piano Teacher
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300475
07/09/14 09:32 PM
07/09/14 09:32 PM
Joined: May 2012
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Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Thanks, passion.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2300492
07/09/14 10:21 PM
07/09/14 10:21 PM
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Bellevue, WA
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Thanks Marty and musicpassion! Any others share these thoughts?

Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300751
07/10/14 01:16 PM
07/10/14 01:16 PM
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Sarasota and Naples, FL
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Originally Posted by lotsofquestions
Thanks Marty and musicpassion! Any others share these thoughts?


lotsofquestions:

I too want to echo the sentiments that have already been expressed here, except for the suggestions that you would want to choose some drastic alternative for same price!

You seem to have been able to do an excellent job to answer all of your questions, and they are essential to your being assured about your new Mason & Hamlin BB.

As others have stated here, this piano fills quite a niche for the price, and is the reason why I have selected one for my own home besides being a dealer. It's as if they are an undervalued piano, or at least not overpriced, as they are usually in the hands of independent, non-franchised dealers.

Thanks,

Nick


Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Baldwin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300817
07/10/14 03:55 PM
07/10/14 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by lotsofquestions
Thanks Marty and musicpassion! Any others share these thoughts?
No, not me: the work (e.g., tuning/voicing/regulation/etc.) to a piano can always be improved, and usually greatly in the hands of a technician used to working at high concert standards; I've never seen/heard a piano that is perfect. It doesn't mean that work should absolutely be done, but I would be far more be concerned with the skill set of a technician that couldn't, within moments, tell/show you all the potential work that could be done to improve a piano's overall condition. This is especially true for the condition of the hammers: great improvements in sound/voice can always be made--it is an ongoing process, not something defined by the condition of the piano when you first bought it.


Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300832
07/10/14 04:29 PM
07/10/14 04:29 PM
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Rochester MN
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If one is completely delighted with the tone, touch, and yes, even the pedal response on a new piano, why change it? A fine pianist knows what to expect from an excellent piano and is perfectly capable of making those assessments for themselves.

Not everyone feels the need to hype a new car to shave one second from the 0-60 mph specs.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2300841
07/10/14 04:51 PM
07/10/14 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
If one is completely delighted with the tone, touch, and yes, even the pedal response on a new piano, why change it? A fine pianist knows what to expect from an excellent piano and is perfectly capable of making those assessments for themselves.

Not everyone feels the need to hype a new car to shave one second from the 0-60 mph specs.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it!


+1


Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300856
07/10/14 05:24 PM
07/10/14 05:24 PM
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Well you'll have two types people , some who want perfection and a concert level sound and others who won't know the difference or even care.




Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300868
07/10/14 05:54 PM
07/10/14 05:54 PM
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There are people who want perfection and do not know the difference.


Semipro Tech
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300872
07/10/14 06:10 PM
07/10/14 06:10 PM
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Thanks everyone for the feedback. I just bought it - and am looking forward to getting it in my house. I played it somewhere between 6-7 hours (spread across a few days) in the store, trying a lot of different music. Simply an amazing instrument.

Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300873
07/10/14 06:14 PM
07/10/14 06:14 PM
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Congratulations!!! I didn't chime in with an opinion because I lack expereicne with a lot of pianos. But, I love my vintage BB. Recently, I played a friend's new M & H AA. A lovely instrument. I'm sure you will be very happy with your new BB!!


1918 Mason & Hamlin BB
1906 Mason & Hamlin Es
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Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300877
07/10/14 06:27 PM
07/10/14 06:27 PM
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Rochester MN
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Congratulations !!!

Enjoy - Enjoy - Enjoy


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300903
07/10/14 08:08 PM
07/10/14 08:08 PM
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Rehoboth Beach De. USA
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Congratulations on purchasing a great piano!

Rich


Retired at the beach

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2300920
07/10/14 09:44 PM
07/10/14 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by lotsofquestions
Thanks everyone for the feedback. I just bought it - and am looking forward to getting it in my house. I played it somewhere between 6-7 hours (spread across a few days) in the store, trying a lot of different music. Simply an amazing instrument.

I've owned my BB for eight years now - and (with a little help from my piano tuner/technician) it keeps getting better and better. smile

Congratulations !!!!! thumb

Last edited by carey; 07/10/14 09:50 PM.

Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai K-500 Upright
Kawai CA-65 Digital
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
Re: Mason & Hamlin BB fair price [Re: benjamink] #2301172
07/11/14 02:08 PM
07/11/14 02:08 PM
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Mind if I ask if its the one at Classic in Bellevue?


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
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