Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Digital Pianos - Electronic Pianos - Synths & Keyboards ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD

They were giants back then. They must have taken some risks and let their imagination or ingenuity run wild, and hope for the best.

It paid off with the JP4, JP8, TR808, SH101, RD1000 and lots of innovative stuff like D50, MKS modules etc.

They should have pulled off the same trick with the V-Piano (and other V-Things?). But it doesn't seem quite to have the same panache, or cause the same admiration.

Could it be that we, the buyers, are playing safe? We obviously expect much more for much less. Or is it just that the corporate mood has become more and more risk averse?

Maybe the old sparky aspect of the RD800 was the dying ember of a culture that's now lost forever.

I'm not convinced we will see a change until the next model comes out, as to change the cut-out on the connection panel for a C13 socket, and a redesign on the power PCB to which the socket is soldered, may prove too costly to justify.

We will have to wait and see, as if they were to change it, you can be sure Roland aren't going to announcements it until existing stocks are exhausted.

bgiles
I think Roland will probably wait and see how the changes are impacting sales, now that the fix is in place. It might even be that all this "negative" publicity will increase sales of the current model (you know the old line, so such thing as bad publicity) just because they've gotten so much free press over this. But, if it seems like sales are being negatively impacted in a significant way because the majority of their target market aren't happy with Roland's solution to the problem, I suspect that they'll rework the power supply to fix these issues with a revised model. Time will tell, but I think roland would be crazy not to come up with a redesign that they could move to quickly if they need to. So I bet there's a lab somewhere where a redesign is being done and tested just in case it's needed. Of course, that's a wild guess...who knows what madness lurks in the hearts of corporate CFO's

Warm Regards

As opposed to powerless, know-nothing flacks in call centers, reps are a very real human contact that the public can have with a company. So it's hard to resist the urge to unload on them over every issue both major and minor with the products we use and spend quite a bit of cash for. We want to help them in the optimization process, which should be mostly win-win all the way around if you think about it. Lord knows DPs could stand a bit of optimization, they're practically poster children for products stuck in a technological backwater.

FWIW, here's my take on the Roland situation.

The screwup with the RD800 - a flagship product - seems to be the result of two things. First, forgetting that, in good design, form follows function; and second, that trying to save the last few cents on production costs can be counterproductive. Truly understanding how your customers use products would have sorted out the first issue: all live keyboard players need to be able to have a reference point visible from the front of the instrument as to where the various plugs and jacks should be seated. Then, saving ten cents fitting a non-standard power socket is just not worth it - there's a reason why Nord is transitioning to using standard three-pin power cords and sockets. For goodness sake, how many people interested in a flagship keyboard will refuse to buy simply because Roland changes the $2,499 retail price to $2,500 to accomodate the additional cost of the componentry (if there is indeed any additional cost - the cynic in me would think that it has more to do with trying to sell accessories that are less readily available off the shelf)? And of course, the resulting "fix" is likely to alienate more people. It's a shame, as I bet the sound quality is superb. In the end, there was absolutely no reason for this debacle, if they'd thought about the reason for designing the earlier RDs the way they did.

As far as the FP line is concerned, I concur with 36251. The FP4 was a really useful gigging tool for people who couldn't cope with the length of the RDs, didn't need mod/pitchbend facilities, but required speakers built-in from time-to-time. The later 4F and 50, while gaining the excellent SN sound, lost some other great sounds, a good portion of the functionality and an imperfect but usefully fast action. The new, louder speakers were, superficially, a boon, but they couldn't handle the full range of sounds, and they were no longer switchable. Also gone was a great lightweight but very robust metal chassis. I'm guessing that the Roland execs wanted to differentiate the lines and "force" people towards the more expensive RD range. What it actually has done is force people like me into the Casio/Yamaha/Kawai camps.

I, too, have loved Roland products over the years. My old SA-based piano was a favorite of mine for years, and was an outstanding product for its time. I think, despite some design limitations, the VR-09 is a fantastic buy right now, and teaches Nord a lesson or two. But, I get the impression that the tail is wagging the dog more and more at Roland HQ. Listening to customers is the best way for a business to survive, in my opinion, and noting that Roland has had some financial issues in the past few years, it would probably be a good time for them to revisit that maxim.

The crazy thing is that, there IS a option available to them that would not impact the production line in any way, and that would be to put a pair of sprung XLR covers over the 2 outputs.

This would have removed the safety risk, and resulted in only the minor inconvenience to users of lifting a cover to use the outputs.


The sloping up of the connection face on the RD-700 series made connections easy, and it also would have minimised the possibility of a misconnection after they also made the mistake of changing the power connector to C7.

The connections on the RD-800 are no longer on the upper casing, probably because it's now plastic (as opposed to aluminium on the RD-700), instead they are on the lower back plate, which is metal.
So relocating them was probably down to the cost saving of reducing the steel content of the keyboard.

I guess to change casing design on the current model would be prohibitively expensive.

Unfortunately, this would not fully prevent users from connecting the power cable to the XLR jacks.

James
x

James, the 'potential safety issue' exists because the user, who can't easily see the connections from the front, decide to 'feel' their way with the C8 plug until they find a socket where it fits.
Putting sprung covers over the XLR's prevents them finding an open socket that would accommodate the C8 plug, other than the designated C7 on the end.

Are you saying that a manufacturer could still be held responsible if a user 'lifts a cover' to plug the mains lead into the wrong socket?

That would take liability laws to a farcical level, and would leave Roland no option but to change back to a C13 at some point, and swallow the associated costs.

I'm afraid I don't know.

James
x

Well, after a full month with the RD800, I am extremely pleased. IMO listening to any of the demo's is not going to give you an idea of how good and deeply customizable the pianos and ep's are. The sounds to me have way more clarity then the RD700NX did, and mostly dimension. I gigged with the NX for 3 years. The GX for a couple before this, and before that an RD1000. And yes for it's time, the RD 1000 was incredible. It was also 5000$ (in the 80's!!) I would never ever think of trading an RD800 for the RD1000 today. By current standards, they just don't sound good at all. And keyaction was AMAZING for the time, but in my view repeatability was not and good as current top actions. It's just apples and oranges. The RD was an SA "instrument" let's put it that way. The pianos, sound more to my ear like some strange horn. It was very engaging to play though, impossible to transport (though I did) and the keys would clunk like crazy after a few years of moving the thing around. I think of it more like I think of a Wurly, or a Rhodes, and wouldn't compare it as a "Digital Piano". So I would agree with Jay that the RD800 is the best DP Roland has ever designed for stage.

One other thing I especially love - is the individual note editing. I can play each key in any room - find the hot ones, and through slight adjustments of the note, tame or sort of "bend" around the objectionable frequencies. You can also play with "character" on that note as well, and smooth it some more! My understanding is that the Kawai boards have this feature also! On the Roland, it is incredibly well implemented. I'm pretty sure I will customize the board for every PA and/or room circumstance! Awesome!

I agree with GWILLY. I consider myself a Kawai guy*, but have been using the RD800 now exclusively for gigs. It has been absolutely tremendous in helping my band expand our playlist. I have programed so many live sets in the past few months. The RD800 has been nothing but a great experience for me in live performances. I'm constantly getting comments on how good the RD800 sounds. I even enjoy playing songs I don't care for but have to play by requests. I know that sounds odd, but I think that makes sense to a few of you. Im happy to say that the RD800 has already paid for itself within 90 days.

* Let me be clear that I did not choose Roland over Kawai because one is better than the other. Just the timing was right and I jumped on the RD800 before the MP7 was released. I have no regrets with the RD800 whatsoever but I view the MP7 as a fantastic value and recommend that both be demoed before purchase.

I like that you mentioned the Kawai, as did I. I was actually thinking the MP11 would be the board I went for, although I have had a long term relationship with the Roland Piano's, and I have always preferred their actions more and more with each generation. In Canada, Long and MacQuade has named the RD800 as "preferred rental stock" for their rental catalog. What that means is that the price is really cheap (I think 99 dollars per month, my first month was actually 49, because I grabbed one on half price rental day)... but I find as a gigging musician, (and certainly the starving arts type) this is a very good way to go. You don't break the bank, and there's no buyers remorse, and if it gets stolen at a gig, it has theft insurance. Also, if it breaks, you just take it back and they replace it. The best thing though, is because there is not an inventory of rented units yet (they're so new) that means that they give you a new unit in the box. 50 per cent of the rental goes to the buyout, if you decide you want to buy it out at some point in the future. For me, that's an amazing deal, and I'm just now coming to terms with how great this keyboard actually is as a gigging instrument! People need to play around with all the customizing though to really understand! And it sounds much better on the outputs through speakers, then through the headphones jack.

Sorry, I know - enough of GWILLY (I've only ever posted 10 other times!) the other secretly cool thing about Roland boards, is that they have the balanced outs and the unbalanced outs. They can both be used at the same time. What that means, is you can bring your small studio monitors and plug them in on the unbalanced outputs and self monitor, without a mixer. Send the XLR's to the mains. It's very cool. Ultimately I'd take how things sound to me, over an audience's perspective any day!! Besides the audience isn't OCD about sound anyways. With an RD, you are right in the sweet spot of minimalist bi-amplification, in the near field. All things being equal, that's an eargasm!

And therefore, in my mind, the RD800 is a lot better than the RD1000, because the RD800 sounds better. (FWIW, I had the original RD300S, which had the core SA piano engine, and I was never that impressed with it - I think the SA sound is overrated)

When I listen to the RD800 demos they really DO sound excellent.

Greg.

Don't even go by the demos. It's a serious board.

I don't understand why it doesn't have a digital audio output though - weird for an instrument at this level, isn't it?

Greg.

Yes, the RD800 is a very serious professional board. To bad this XLR/power nonsense has distracted immensely from how great this board truly is. It really is shame how such an insignificant distraction can deviate what this amazing board has to offer for so many professional musicians.

word

Hi Greg,

What application would you like a digital out for?

Help me to understand if it is something that many would pay for. It would add some cost to the instrument of course. It's far more complex than just the part being bolted in. There are many inexpensive external boxes that can do the AD conversion very well.

For live, you have XLR and 1/4" outputs. And most studios either have Interfaces or mixers/snakes that accept the XLR output.

This is the first time I've seen this request. No RD Owner has made it directly to me before outside of this forum.

Jay