Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Pearl River GP150 or Yamaha GB1

We have an opportunity to buy a Pearl River 5' GP150 (new model) Professional Series or a Yamaha GB1 4"11.

The Pearl River will cost $1000 less then the Yamaha
after delivery and taxes.


Is the yamaha worth $1000 more?
How the ""professional series" Pearl River different then the "Home Series?"

I know from reading this forum many would not choose either Piano But we limited our total expenditure to $7000 total which is where we are with these choices. Both Pianos sound alike, The Pearl river seems to have more bottom end (longer bass strings) Yamaha is brighter. We like them both equally for different reasons.

Opinions would be helpful.

Yamaha has prooven their longevity, Pearl River has not (in my opinion). Just an observation.

As you mentioned, you have absolutely no preference for either or, so If I was in your shoes, I would base my buying deicision on reputation.

That's a normal - but *very* conservative position.

In fact it is so conservative that some people would never even have bothered to ask a question regarding the differences between these two brands and models - in the first place.....

However, the question *has* been asked and chances are - it will be even more so in the future.

My answer here would be more as to the impression these pianos give a prospective buyer both as a musical instrument and the value they represent in today's market.

In this regard one could also ask how long each respective model has been actually on the market - let's not forget even the Yamaha model is relatively 'new' - and how it has performed according to the expectations of their previous buyers.

Nothing wrong with asking for references....

Still, no easy answer to any of this,IMHO,and my own hunch is that these 2 intruments have perhaps more in common than distinguishes them.

More homework,i.e "playing and trying out" required - ideally including some more alternative but otherwise somewhat *comparable* models as well.

At least Kawai comes to mind.

Norbert

Thanks Norbert. I am not an automatic brand buyer, I have been around long enough to know sometimes those who are trying to become a "brand" often give on more for the money. At least you are paying ALL the dollars for the piano , none for the label. Witness Toyota in the 70's. Much better then the Pintos and Vegas for less. Is Pearl River the piano builder who wants to give complete value and build reputation or do they want to crank out cheap product cutting corners to gain the most profit ala the American way.

I want to believe they care and would love to be known as a great value. Its a tough decision.

There are no Kawai brands here and since we know the owner of this particular establishment we are getting any piano for $1000 less then he would sell to the general public. This has been confirmed by seeing what others have paid for the same here and elsewhere. I happen to think a low end Yamaha and "professional series" (whatever that buys one) Pearl River might be in the "splitting hair" category.

I'd say if you really don't care about branding, you don't prefer one over the other (performance-wise), and you're planning on keeping it for a good long time, get the Pearl River.

But if it's remotely possible that you'll ever upgrade to a larger, more expensive piano, the Yamaha will probably be an easier, more profitable sell/trade, unless maybe you go back to your Pearl River connection.

To get back to the old piano/car comparison, you
might find a Hyundai (I know it's not Chinese, but for the sake of comparison) that serves you as well as a similar class Toyota. The Toyota will likely hold its value better on reputation alone, as much as a certain Canadian dealer here may vehemently disagree.

That's how I'd approach it, anyway. You seem to have done your homework, and I'd wager you'll be happy with either piano...

Good luck.

I would personally lean towards the GB1 for the simple reason that I've seen many 20+ years old Yamahas that are still "playable," but I have not seen any 10+ year old Pearl River at all. Not saying that the Pearl River cannot last that long (it most likely will last longer than that -- heck, the warranty alone lasts that lone), I just haven't seen one yet, so it's more of an unknown to me.

You said your wife is a "schooled pianist," by virtue of her ability to play competently and her experience playing various different pianos on the job, she's already ahead of other shoppers who do not play, regardless of how many times they've read Larry Fine's Piano Book or for how long they've been hanging around piano forums. So trust her judgment.

Good luck.

The reason you haven't seen a 10 year old Pearl River is because they only began mass export to the U.S. in 1999. Unfortunately, saying you're buying a Yamaha is like saying your buying a Chevy. There are 4 different levels of Yamaha Grands, the S series (high-end), the C series (Yamaha's standard home piano), the GC model (the lowest end Japanese built piano) and the GB1--which is built in Indonesia. Of course, if you look at the price difference, it's obvious that Yamaha had to take away a number of features from it's C series in order to make the GC1 competative with the Chinese product out there. With regards for Pearl River, I've been to their factory and these guys know what they're doing. The Yamaha series they model their pianos after is the C series, and they only have one level of piano. There GP series is their one and only flagship line. Wouldn't you rather have a piano that is a company's best built piano, than a company's cheapest built piano? I know I would. Incidently Axtremus--there are no 20 year old GB1's out there. The GP150 has been around much longer than the GB1.

Incidently, I agree with you Ax on the 'trusting her judgement' part. Touch and feel are the most important thing.

Ah this is what we wanted to know. She likes the 4'7" PR and the Yamaha both equally. (I prefer the deeper bass of the Yamaha)I think the 5" PR will trump the Yamaha. It will be at the dealer next week. He is going to set it up for us next to the Yamaha.

I have been wondering if the best PR has to offer is better then Yamaha's worst. You have answered the question. A 5" PR series piano MADE TODAY can be said to be better then Yamaha's bottom of the line 4'11" piano. For $1000 less. The Yamaha decal may be the single most expensive part on the GB1.

I do not think the name value of the Yamaha is worth $1000 more given your information. Both pianos will not have the best of resale and will sell to those looking for a basic playable piano. Both of which these are by our standards anyway.

Thanks for the reply.

If name recognition and 'track record' are the only or even major factors to consider when buying a piano, nobody in the world needs to even try or even consider a 'newer' type brand.

The downfall or possible disadvatage for the prospective buyer in this case is, that it's exactly the newer type pianos on the market today which put pressure on the older makes resulting in an ever increased competitive market situation for all consumers.

Rest assured, that few older makers would be well advised to rest on their laurels, not acknowledging this basic fact today and/or not take this development very much into consideration.

INHO, very few do.

As a result, it's perhaps well worth to look at all options out there today and carefully weigh the particular advantages of one option over the other,certainly on an individual basis.

Otherwise everyone may as well just buy a Sauter.

After all, it's the oldest and obviously - 'most proven' - pianomaker in the entire world.

norbert

" I have been wondering if the best PR has to offer is better then Yamaha's worst"

Yes, Its the smallest and built with cheaper labor. It is still a Yamaha piano and is built to withstand Yamaha's reputation for value and consistency in piano building.

From a person who sells the brands you do , Norbert, that says a mouthful.I respect your opinion. Just a few years ago Hyundai was considered a terrible car. Today they rank higher then American made cars with JD Powers and Consumer Reports.

I think it is possible for an upstart to "compete" on quality if not brand. If that company seeks to create a brand, as many Asian companies have done and do with mega success, They will be up to the task.

I betting I suppose that Pearl River is not going to rest on their minimal laurals and sneek up on many piano builders with a quality product for the masses...much Like Hyundai has done.

If Im wrong....well at least we won't have much invested relatively speaking.

Because most of the "family" piano buying public is not aware of the "value" of the more esoteric brands,I'm confidant the market is there for used $3500 5" PR grands.....LOL

I agree Yamaha has a reputation to uphold, But Pearl River has a reputation to EARN. They HAVE to deliver more for less. All start ups in a new market have to.

That said we still have to give a listen to the new 5" Grand Pearl River built The dealer said it has longer strings then a standard 5" and is more squared off in the back we shall see as we compare one side by side to the GB1.

I do like the fact that Pearl River builds ALL their Pearl River branded pianos with the same materials from the 4'7" to the larger Grands.

Depends on the companies involved, doesn't it? If I pick on, say, Schimmel, their cheapest grand piano is a VOGEL. I can also pick on Petrof/Geneva International and bring up the older Petrof-made Weinbach (back when Weinbachs were still made by Petrof) or Bechstein's Euterpe. Please tell me you'd automatically prefer the PG series anyway when presented with Schimmel's VOGEL, Petrof-built Weinbach, or Bechstein's Euterpe.

I will also take issue with another claim you've made: that the PG series is Pearl River's "best built" piano. Pearl River's own marketing line says their "best built" pianos are the Ritmuller line, not the PG series.

Yes, it's precisely becuase I haven't seen any old Pearl River grand piano that I lack confidence in them when it comes to longevity arguments. I'm not picking on Pearl River alone here on this "track record" criterion. I've said the same thing for Fazioli and Estonia. And I shall now pick on Sauter too since Norbert brought it up.

Sauter, while has a long history of existence, do not have the track record of wide deployments in a wide ranges of environments and usage patterns. For example, I haven't seen many Sauter instruments in music schools getting pounded 16 hours a day, I haven't seen many Sauter instruments deployed in restaurants, clubs, and pubs surviving poor maintenance and all sorts of abuse. So if the application is for music school practise rooms and pubs entertainment, I wouldn't have much confidence in Sauter either. (And I would apply the same reasoning to Bechstein, August Förester, Grotrian, Bösendorfer... you name it. Have I knocked enough "high-end" brand names yet? )

If resale value is in your equation, and given a 10 year time frame, my bet is that "Yamaha" the brand name will win. Even if I assume the Pearl River to be a technically superior piano, I'll still bet that "Yamaha" the brand name will win in the used piano market. ("Win" being defined as you suffering less depreciation in absoluate dollar terms.)

That said, if your wife truly likes the Pearl River more, please buy her that Pearl River. Then post pictures and recordings!

Interesting point regarding resale.I suppose I'm betting in 10 years Pearl River might become as the Hyundai and actually have name value as a quality entry level piano. They are certainly doing their best to do so regarding their materials and asthetics in their lowend. They don't seem to cut corners from their higher end GP pianos.

That said we will not make a final choice until we play both side by side. Actually my wife will indeed make the final choice.

Not sure we will post a picture of a Pearl River here. Don't want to sully up the forum.......LOL

Then it's perhaps time to do some travelling.

They certainly have done very well in the humid climates of the Orient, including Hong Kong and Singapore.

I just returned from Germany where I tried the 44" school model Sauter I played at the extreme heavy use municipal youth performance centre of my home town some 40 years ago.

[it's in the preparatory room,on big wheels and bashed around from corner to corner...]

The thing was not only *as new* - but would put most new pianos on the market today to shame.....

Norbert

That may well come true for Pearl River. Of all the Chinese piano makers, I see Pearl River as the one with the most coherent marketing, so I think Pearl River will out-pace all other Chinese makers when it comes to name recognition (if it hasn't already). Question then is -- will that be enuogh to overtake Yamaha?

Taking your Hyundai example -- Hyundai has indeed come a long way -- but then you've got to ask: Has Hyundai caught up with Honda and Toyota in the used car market yet?

Back in the piano market, even Young Chang and Samick, two Korean companies that have been exporting pianos to the US for much longer than Pearl River, have not manage to overtake Yamaha in the used piano market.

For sure, things will change -- I just don't think they'll change that fast.

Oh, don't worry about a Pearl River picture "sullying up" the joint. 88Key_PianoPlayer has many times posted pictures of his beaten up Ricco and Sons upright that's hard for any one to one-up.

Ax:

One question:

Why *overtake*?

Is one's rightful and respectful existence in this world not enough?

Norbert

We were talking depreciation in monetary term. "Overtake" simply means "depreciate less (in absolute $ term)" in this context, a context within which the notion of "rightful and respectful existence" is irrelevant.

I don't expect Pearl River to overtake Yamaha by any stretch. Unless Yamaha falls. I intended to imply Pearl river by then may become a "respectable" well known brand among lower end buyers like us.

Hyundai will most likely never "overtake" Toyota in percieved reliability. But they have made HUGE strides in quality and respectability. Enough to be suddenly be considered a reliable choice with a long warranty.

IF a 5' Pearl river Grand is $10,000 new in ten years, today's $6000 grand could sell for $4-5000. Close to new price. Not bad.

Another dealer called us today with a 19 year old GH 5' 3" Yamaha for $7000. We would rather get a warranty.

Perception is half the battle.

I don't think anybody at this point can reliably predict what product exactly will depreciate more or less in the future.

When in Germany last month, I bought my wife some very expensive, stainless steel type kitchen tools, all beautifully "made in Germany".

Smartly designed, well made and heavy stuff - the ladies here would absolutely love it....

Next, I overheard the cashier saying that the company was closing and moving its manufacturing to China, making the same stuff from now on for less than half the cost.

Wondering what my wife's kitchen tools will bring on E-bay few years down the line.

You never know - I might even try.....

Norbert