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Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285338
06/03/14 08:00 PM
06/03/14 08:00 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Wouldn't it be great if all of the piano dealers and company reps came across with the same graciousness as Rich Galassini, Don Mannino, and Bob Snyder!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Piano & Music Gifts & Accessories (570)
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Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285342
06/03/14 08:05 PM
06/03/14 08:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071
Conway, AR USA
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071
Conway, AR USA
Yes, indeed. I once knew a wise piano dealer who wholeheartedly believed that everyone's view about pianos had great value. He proved it time and again with every closed deal.


Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285477
06/04/14 03:14 AM
06/04/14 03:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
London UK
Cross-Eyed Pianist Offline
Junior Member
Cross-Eyed Pianist  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 9
London UK
I played the Fazioli downstairs in the big rehearsal room at Jacques Samuels, and I have also played a Fazioli 212 at Peregrine's Pianos. I liked the feel of it, but I - and several colleagues who also played it - felt it was hard to control the sound and that its voice was too big for the space. I accept that it's difficult to judge based on perhaps an hour's playing - and pianos at rehearsal rooms are not always set up as nicely as they could be. I am sure I could grow to love a Fazioli if it was set up to my liking. I also played the baby Kawai grand at JSP's and liked it a lot - despite its small size, it had a great sound and touch.

A friend of mine who owns a Fazioli (bought from Jacques Samuels) admitted that his piano is so beautifully engineered and so easy to play that he finds other pianos, including my Bechstein (which is in exceptionally good playing condition, given its age), "very difficult to play". At the end of the day, it's all about personal taste - and we grow to love the piano which we play the most, whether we are professional or amateur (and please see my post here http://crosseyedpianist.com/2014/05/19/masterchef-redefining-amateur/ about the ongoing pro/am debate)

In response to the UK agent's email to me, I amended my blog post, removing the content which he deemed "offensive" and adding his corrections, as he requested. (In fact, the statement "only around 100 pianos are produced each year" was taken from Fazioli's own website, but the agent wanted to clarify that "130 are made annually". Then I wrote a very polite reply, apologising for any offence caused, and explaining that it was not intentional nor intended as a personal slight against Mr Fazioli. To date, I have not had the courtesy of a reply.

Hear my 1913 Bechstein piano in action here https://soundcloud.com/cross-eyedpianist/fur-alina-arvo-part


Last edited by Cross-Eyed Pianist; 06/04/14 03:27 AM.
Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Cross-Eyed Pianist] #2285486
06/04/14 03:53 AM
06/04/14 03:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,340
New York
Mark_C Online content
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Mark_C  Online Content
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22,340
New York
Originally Posted by Cross-Eyed Pianist
....A friend of mine who owns a Fazioli (bought from Jacques Samuels) admitted that his piano is so beautifully engineered and so easy to play that he finds other pianos, including my Bechstein (which is in exceptionally good playing condition, given its age), "very difficult to play"....

First of all, I want to say (and have been looking for an opportunity to say)....While it has been alleged a little bit that on this thread some piano brands have been a bit trashed in the process of praising others, I haven't noticed anything like that, or at least haven't seen it that way. There were various negative things said about both of the available pianos at this competition, but it didn't seem to me like any put-down of the brands.

That said, the above seems implicitly to suggest that other brands perhaps aren't as "beautifully engineered" as Faziolis. While I do think, from my limited experience with Faziolis, that they are beautifully engineered, I have to say that the experience being described here has a very different possible explanation than other brands being less-finely engineered, and I'd guess strongly that the other possible explanation is more likely to be the actual one: Faziolis simply are 'more different' than most other brands.

I've talked about this before in relation to Bosendorfers, especially one particular Bosendorfer that used to be available for concerts in New York. It suited me so well and felt so relatively easy to play that I loved to use it for performances, but felt it would be bad for me to have such a piano as my own because if I got used to it, I'd be "spoiled" and I'd have somewhat of a hard time playing on other pianos. I never felt it meant Bosendorfers were "better" than other top-level brands, but that they were 'more different' than most, in terms of touch and sound production, and that the different-ness happened to suit me. After I played on a couple of Faziolis at an amateur competition a few years ago, I said similar things on here about them (as I mentioned earlier, with links). They didn't suit me as well as the Bosendorfers but I was able to appreciate their special qualities, and also how they, like Bosendorfers, felt far more different than most other makes, and I wondered whether it would be a disadvantage switching to a 'more standard' type of piano if one were used to a Fazioli.

I think that's what Cross-Eyed's friend more likely is experiencing -- not that other brands are particularly less "beautifully engineered," but that his piano is a bit of an outlier among pianos, and so when he tries other pianos, it's little like he's trying a completely different instrument.

But what the heck..... smile as Cross-Eyed does go on to say:

Quote
At the end of the day, it's all about personal taste.

Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285578
06/04/14 08:33 AM
06/04/14 08:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071
Conway, AR USA
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071
Conway, AR USA
Argument over superlatives is subjective. I really like Fazioli. I also really like Hamburg Steinway. Preference for the former over the latter is wholly a matter of personal choice.

Last edited by bkw58; 06/04/14 08:34 AM.

Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285604
06/04/14 09:43 AM
06/04/14 09:43 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,860
H
Hakki Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Hakki  Offline
3000 Post Club Member
H

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,860
How can you like both? They are opposite of each other.

Unlike Yamaha which tries to mimic the Steinway design (not successfully though) Fazioli gets its motivation from its creator's search for the socalled perfect piano sound.

Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Hakki] #2285611
06/04/14 10:07 AM
06/04/14 10:07 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,798
Ann Arbor, MI
jazzyprof Offline
2000 Post Club Member
jazzyprof  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,798
Ann Arbor, MI
Originally Posted by Hakki
How can you like both? They are opposite of each other.

Can one not like both fish and fowl? Meat and broccoli?


"Playing the piano is my greatest joy...period."......JP
Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285614
06/04/14 10:14 AM
06/04/14 10:14 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
I really like Fazioli for Mozart concertos.

I really like S&S for the big Romantic concertos.

I really like Kingston for Bach.

It works.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: jazzyprof] #2285618
06/04/14 10:24 AM
06/04/14 10:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,508
B
bennevis Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
bennevis  Offline
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B

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 11,508
Originally Posted by jazzyprof
Originally Posted by Hakki
How can you like both? They are opposite of each other.

Can one not like both fish and fowl? Meat and broccoli?

No.

Chalk and cheese don't mix. (Well, they do, but it's indigestible). grin


"I don't play accurately - anyone can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression. As far as the piano is concerned, sentiment is my forte. I keep science for Life."
Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285642
06/04/14 11:31 AM
06/04/14 11:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071
Conway, AR USA
bkw58 Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014
bkw58  Offline

Silver Supporter until December 19, 2014


Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,071
Conway, AR USA
I enjoy variety for a variety of reasons.


Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285675
06/04/14 12:30 PM
06/04/14 12:30 PM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 18
J
johnbroadwood Offline
Junior Member
johnbroadwood  Offline
Junior Member
J

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 18
What piano you might want to prefer depends completely on the repertoire.

I prefer Bösendorfer for Bach, Beethoven, Schubert, Schumann, Brahms.

Scarlatti, Haydn, Chopin > Steinway or Fazioli.

Rachmaninoff > Bösendorfer or Steinway.

Mozart, Liszt, Debussy, Ravel > Steinway.

Of course a recital usually contains several composers, then you must make a choice. Generally, while Fazioli would never be my first choice for anything, i prefer a good Bösendorfer over everything else. Some of the best pianos i've played were Bösendorfer Imperials. (But if i had to choose between a bad Steinway, a bad Bösendorfer and a bad Fazioli, i'd choose the bad Steinway because a bad Steinway loses less than a bad Bösendorfer, and a bad Fazioli is just a nightmare)

If i had a recital in the hall where the Rubinstein Competition was held, i would choose the Steinway without a second thought. But i would go with Fazioli for a concerto.

Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285905
06/05/14 12:17 AM
06/05/14 12:17 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 752
E
Eduard Hanslick Offline
500 Post Club Member
Eduard Hanslick  Offline
500 Post Club Member
E

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 752
The Fazioli rep was interviewed during one of the backstage interview sessions (along with the Steinway rep) at the competition and her attitude was a little annoying - "we're the best" kind of thing (unspoken) and Paolo Fazioli had to create a new piano because nothing out there gave him satisfaction. She had the same braggadocio type attitude that upstarts and the nouveau riche have - they feel like the underdog and they have to prove they belong, so they overstate their case. The Steinway rep was much more chill.

But more annoying was (in a different interview session) everyone's agreement that Rubinstein himself could never have won the Rubinstein Competition. And you hear over and over the same sentiment about the great pianists of the 20th century. They never could have won. So....competitions are not quite pointless, but getting there...

Last edited by Eduard Hanslick; 06/05/14 12:20 AM. Reason: beer-drinking
Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: fnork] #2285909
06/05/14 12:30 AM
06/05/14 12:30 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 752
E
Eduard Hanslick Offline
500 Post Club Member
Eduard Hanslick  Offline
500 Post Club Member
E

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 752
Originally Posted by fnork
I believe this article hasn't been shared in this thread, though another thread was dedicated to it. Interview with previous winner Kirill Gerstein - a few excerpts here, and a link to the full interview:

http://slippedisc.com/2014/06/a-rubinstein-winner-on-the-perils-of-finals/


Thanks - some interesting things in there. I particularly like hearing that "Marc-André Hamelin told us just a few months ago that he cannot feel much for Copland’s music..." I feel the same way. I like hearing about what music great musicians can't connect to. I also feel this way about Gershwin.

Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285910
06/05/14 12:31 AM
06/05/14 12:31 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014
Minnesota Marty  Offline OP

Platinum Supporter until October 5 2014


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
To add even more overthinking, Kholodenko played the Hamburg C&A throughout the competition until the Prokofiev concerto. Then he switched to the NY C&A. I'm not sure how that fits in but Eduard keeps giving me beer and it seems relevant.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285912
06/05/14 12:36 AM
06/05/14 12:36 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 752
E
Eduard Hanslick Offline
500 Post Club Member
Eduard Hanslick  Offline
500 Post Club Member
E

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 752
Did I accidentally give you beer?? Give it back!!

Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2285913
06/05/14 12:38 AM
06/05/14 12:38 AM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 752
E
Eduard Hanslick Offline
500 Post Club Member
Eduard Hanslick  Offline
500 Post Club Member
E

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 752
I have to admit that the ugly font on the side of the Fazioli always makes me think "cheap." I wish someone had worked harder on that font.

Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2292916
06/21/14 10:15 AM
06/21/14 10:15 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2
P
Pianissimo12 Offline
Junior Member
Pianissimo12  Offline
Junior Member
P

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2
Hi i'm new here. I am not pianist, just an amateur flutist, otherwise a big music lover. I listened to the competition via internet and I also don't agree with the final results, very strange in my opinion. I hope the future will show that the jury was right after all. All these people are very young and will develop on one way or another.
I was also disapointed with some of performances in the first round. It is strange to hear these huge differences between candidates when they're all supposed to have high class competitors for this event. What are your opinions about this? What i wanted to say is that there were (very few but still...) people who literally couldn't play correctly the instrument. It is interesting to know how did jury make the selection....

Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Pianissimo12] #2292920
06/21/14 10:23 AM
06/21/14 10:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,102
Helsinki, Finland
F
fnork Offline
2000 Post Club Member
fnork  Offline
2000 Post Club Member
F

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,102
Helsinki, Finland
Originally Posted by Pianissimo12
It is strange to hear these huge differences between candidates when they're all supposed to have high class competitors for this event. What are your opinions about this? What i wanted to say is that there were (very few but still...) people who literally couldn't play correctly the instrument.

Can you give examples of people who, in your opinion, didn't use the instrument correctly? Not that I'm questioning what you are saying, but I didn't follow it so closely. I do find the level in quite a number of competitions below rather than above my expectations in general - some pianists always stick out, but there is a whole lot of playing that I just couldn't care less about during these events.

Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: fnork] #2292927
06/21/14 10:43 AM
06/21/14 10:43 AM
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2
P
Pianissimo12 Offline
Junior Member
Pianissimo12  Offline
Junior Member
P

Joined: May 2014
Posts: 2
i just thought everyone is exploring all kinds of subjects here, so that's how came my question. i forgot the names of these persons, this is why i said there are very few, but it was still strange to me to see a drastic difference. i can look up...

Re: Rubinstein Competition [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2292938
06/21/14 11:39 AM
06/21/14 11:39 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,860
H
Hakki Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Hakki  Offline
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H

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 3,860
Fazioli?

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