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Hi Cub,

I am about to move into a new house with neighbours either side and my ageing Kemble compact acoustic piano will only do for daytime practice. Hence the interest in digital. I'm haunting Rose Morris and the Yamaha Music Centre in London at the moment. I fully intend to go back and have another trial of the 585. I think the key point here is familiarity. I'm so used to the feel of an acoustic upright with a delicate touch that all the pure digitals I've tried feel odd in one way or another. Hopefully as I become more used to the action, I will be able to see past this. I also found the Kawai grand feel a bit soft if thats the right word. And oddly, the dynamics on the CA95 that I tried felt compromised. I thought the 585 better in this respect but none as responsive as the Yamaha YUS5 acoustic. To be fair the CA95 had a lower octave that was much louder than the above 2/3 of the keyboard. This created an impression of uneven sound. I suspect someone had been messing about with the settings. For instance this was not the case with the CS10. I guess I've set my heart on the Yamaha acoustic silent piano at the moment whereas my head tells me its far too expensive. We will see. For those here that are intrigued by the Yamaha hybrid Avante-Grande N2, this video review should pique your interest.

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/30598575

Kind regards

Paul H

Thanks for your messages Cub
I must find a shop that have it available yet. I will try it as soon as possible, overall I'm interested in the transition between digital to real acustic since in the past I did study some important passages (Chopin Sonata Op 58) on my Yamaha P-120 with satisfaction but then on my real grand the same passages was imperfect... I know that P-120 is old technology and I bought it many years ago to use it when I am in travel and it is ok, but the differences in the action are really evident with a real piano.

X Morodiene: I know that CN34 is another world, unluckily I did find few shops that sell Kawai digital pianos. However I will try to find MP10 or MP11.

Very interesting video, thank you pmh: I tried N2, I played only some fast passages from Chopin Scherzo n 2 and the keyboard was really responsive, like a good real grand. The price is a real handicap, so I hope that Yamaha soon replace N1 and N2 with newer models so maybe actual prices could fall a bit... Altough I am not sure of this since the high prices of previous GrandTouch series in the second hand instruments market.

pmh: Awesome video on the digitals. The only gotcha I have with an Avant Grand is knowing my luck I would spend the money on the beast and then in a few months they will refresh the line. I was hoping that Yamaha would have refreshed the line this year too. I guess they did a little with the NU1.

cub: Yes, the CA95 tempts me too. There are too many choices and not enough money to buy them all

I'm glad you guys find the video helpful. I think it is one of the more telling and instructive reviews. With regard to the Kawai CA95, Ms Dinnerstein also hinted in a related article that she was not convinced by the grand feel action. The trouble is, all the digitals in the video are being compared to acoustic grands and the N2 so they are bound to suffer. Personally, I don't find the CA95 brittle or nasal and I'm guessing its position in the room makes a big difference. With regard to 95's dynamics, there is enough responsive light and shade to encompass most pieces of music and it does sound very 'piano like' to me. In a way, the CA95 is well suited to small and medium sized domestic environments in my opinion. It does hold up well against the Yamaha 585 which has its own beguiling sounds. I'm now on a mission and I'm going to spend some quality time with it this coming Wednesday, IF I can avoid the pesky salesmen. In the meantime I'm looking forward to Cubs impressions when he finally get hold of his piano.

Paul H

Hi Paul, Thanks for the great video review link. I found her to be very validating as I feel very similarly about many of the actions and sounds (although I've never tried an AGN2). I'd be interested in the same reviewer's opinion of the new 585 action.

Have you tried or considered one of these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdshxsRsclI

I'm not sure how new this is and whether this is what you are already looking at with the YUS5 with silent piano.

I found out my 585 will be here next week. Due to work commitments first chance to play will be next friday. This week I've been playing my acoustic upright a lot but I can't wait for the digital and the ability to play and practice late at night with out disturbing family or neighbours.

Peter, thanks for your reply. Please do follow up on your impressions regarding the Imperial-CFX comparisons.

I've seen that video posted here before but I hadn't seen the other written article where she goes into a bit more detail. I think this is the one your referring to.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323605404578384472502632956

It mentions she was unimpressed by the feel of the action on the CA95 but doesn't go into specifics. Both myself and my piano teacher like you found the Grand Feel action on that to be soft. I'm not sure if that's because Kawai are trying to make it as quiet as possible but if it detracts from the realism of the action I'm not in favour. I also go to the same shops you mentioned in London and was also very impressed by the YUS5. If I had the money it'd be hard to go for the N2 over that just for the grand action when the YUS5 sounds so much better.

Simone in the article is also quite positive about Casio's action for the price if not the sound.

Hi Enthusiast,

I've been away for a few days so I've just caught up on the posts. I think the softness of the grand feel does seem to detract from the realism but I will try different settings especially heavy to see if this improves the experience. I did like the way Yamaha had tried to create a tensioning in the key press with their counter weight system. On initial testing the touch did feel promising although the type of tension does not seem to match the acoustic grand or the N2. I will be going back this Wednesday for a further play and will report back. I think Cubs impressions when he receives his piano will be invaluable. But yes the Yamaha YUS5 silent system is the model of choice for me at the moment over the N2 if I can cobble together the money. Maybe I should try the Casio to compare actions but I have a feeling this probably is a good compromise touch for the lower end digital piano.

Hi Cub, thanks for the heads up on the Trans Acoustic technology. It seems to be the most exciting development truly achieving the best of both digital and acoustic worlds in one piano. But I should imagine it will take time before its implemented on the YUS5 and the price will most likely be prohibitive unfortunately. Still, I will have a word with the guys at Yamaha Music London to see what may be round the corner and report back. Its all good stuff in any event.

Regards,

Paul H

I think you are right. Casio is great for someone with a sub-$1k budget, but I'm not sure they can compare with higher-end digitals of other companies.

If you brush up on your Italian ... which I know none of ... there is a really cool (at least to me anyway) demo of VRM in action at the 2:15 mark.

He does a couple of demos with the CLP-585 followed by the same on a grand CFX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rV4B3AbgaC0

Recording acoustic is always challenging ... recording levels, mic placement, etc ... but the comparison I found to be quite interesting.

I don't want to spoil it

That is a very interesting demo. Nice find Oak. Like you, clueless about the Italian but I kind of got some of it. The more I hear demo's of the Yamaha's CLP 585 sound the more I like it. Im definitely going to give it a good play this Wednesday. The video really did bring out the sustain differences however, and I wonder if there aren't a few red faces at Yamaha. Maybe they are immune. It also makes me wonder what the samples will sound like through their new transacoustic sound board. Yamaha centre London will have the new U1 TA sometime in September. Cant wait. Once again thanks for the video.

Paul H

That is what I thought too ... the CFX sustain ... lasted ... forever Now tuning can come into play, and again, mic placement, etc on the CFX. Also, as I am sure this CFX was NOT the one used to obtain the samples from for the 585.

The 585 appeared to have default settings. I wonder if some of the settings were tweaked (Damper resonance - appeared to be set to 5/10, Key resonance - appeared to be set to 5/10, Chorus - appeared to be Off, Reverb - appeared to be set to Recital, etc as shown briefly in the video) if the sustain could not be stretched out?

The single note I thought was pretty cool with the CFX lasting on the sustain.

The multi-key however with the CFX, had a lot more of those lower base notes that never gave up and eventually became louder than the higher notes. The 585 started out with the base real good I thought, but lost the low notes after only a few seconds. Maybe the human factor played (pun intended) here and he just did not hit the base keys quite as hard???

He also did the same thing with the CLP-575 (link below starting at the 3:15 mark), where I did seem hear the base much more this time with the multi-key, again, not lasting near as long as the CFX and not to the degree of the CFX. The 575 and 585 should in theory have the same samples for the pianos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af0LC2u9KkQ


Edit:

The 585 has the counter weights, extra instruments, and extra speakers over the 575. FYI

Just a quick update here. I received delivery yesterday during the day. I'm working very long hours this week so I only managed to assemble the instrument last night and a quick play at midnight and then again a quick play tonight - not enough for a proper review. Assembly took about 75 minutes - essentially by myself with my wife helping for a couple of the lifts. Everything fits together perfectly. The height adjustable stool is very solid and looks nice too.

Suffice to say that I'm loving it so far. The quality of the cabinetry and finish is very high. The sounds are beautiful (both CFX and Bosendorfer). I'm also extremely happy with the action.

I'll have some more time on Friday to play and then next week as I'm working many hours over the weekend too (84 hours for the week!). I'll post some more details in a week or so.

A few pictures would be nice too ... front, back, and sides. Also, is the keyboard cover soft falling? Of course ... when you have time.

Ditto with the pictures. Congrats on your new piano Cub. I had another 10 minute go on the demonstrator at the Yamaha Centre London this morning. I must say that the action is very good and closer to the Avant Grand N2 than I first thought. Someone had been messing with the internal sound as it was horribly uneven which it definitely wasn't last time I tried. I must learn how to reset the instrument. I think the action is closer to the real thing compared to the Kawai grand feel but I'm going to assess this over a period of time.

By the way, Bert Smorenberg is demonstrating the Yamaha Grand TransAcoustic at Yamaha Music London this Saturday between 12:00pm and 4:00pm if anyone is interested. You need to phone up and book a ticket. I spoke at length with the main sales guy on the piano hall level about the TransAcoustic. He has played it at exhibition and was very impressed with the quality of the digital samples through the sound board which he described as rich, deep and resonant. Looks very promising. The 'only' dark cloud on the horizon is the price of admission which will probably be another 2 grand over the silent system. The U1 SH is already near the 9K mark with the TA coming in at a nose bleeding 11k or thereabouts. For that you may as well get YUS 5 SH which is a wonderful sounding piano with a touch close to the full grand piano. The U1 TA will be available from September onwards with the Grand version being released after Christmas as far as anyone can tell.

Regards,

Paul H

The U1TA was scheduled for release (U.S.A.) back in April, yet we're almost in July, and nothing yet.

pmh: "I think the action is closer to the real thing compared to the Kawai grand feel, but I'm going to assess this over a period of time."

This are big words. I think Yamaha has realized that Kawai has made huge efforts (with great results) and have finally worked hard here. Its about time

Too bad the sound was all messed up.


Instructions to Reset from the manual:

Method 1:

1. Press the [MENU] button several times to select “System Menu.”
2. Use the [^]/[Down] buttons to select “Backup,” use the [>] button to call up the next display, then use the [^]/[Down] buttons to select “Factory Set.”
3. Use the [>] button to call up the next display, then use the [^]/[Down] button select “Execute.”
4. Press the [>] button to execute the Restore operation.
A message indicating that the operation is completed appears, then the instrument will restart after a while.

Method 2:

Press and hold down the white key on the right end (C7) and press the [Power] (Standby/On) switch to turn on the power to this instrument. This operation will not delete the Songs in the User folder.

cub: Also, I am surprised the piano dealer did not assemble it for you. Did you get the polished ebony or the satin black?

I am loving this clavinova so far. Here is a link to some photos:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sadv7se6ydrpbnk/AAAS2QpJyGioldppL1eHRcGMa

I tried the pianoworld photo uploader but it would not accept the size of the files and I couldn't be bothered resizing them so its a dropbox link. Let me know if it doesn't work properly.

In relation to assembly - the dealer did offer to have the delivery boys assemble it but I preferred to do it myself.

The fit and finish of the cabinetry and the Polished Ebony is of a very high quality. The sound is just so smooth, delicate and powerful at the same time.

More comments coming...

Did it come with the adjustable bench too, or did you pay extra for that?

Beautiful piano!

As I said in another post, I was curious about the new 585 and went to the shop where I could (only) tried the 575
I found its action extremely good, and really close to my N2 (which is not a 'small' reference I think)
For sure Yamaha made a great job there, and probably the 585 is even better on this side
I am now eager for your opinion about this piano after having played it some hours.

Cheers and enjoy