Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
105 registered members (Almaviva, ajames, Alexander Borro, ambrozy, Amedeus, 26 invisible), 1,875 guests, and 1 spider.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2290407 - 06/16/14 08:42 AM How to get started on aural tuning?  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 618
pinkfloydhomer Offline
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 618
Denmark
I've been tuning my own upright with TuneLab for a year now. I am reasonably satisfied with my basic technique, my pin and string setting, my unison tuning etc. But TuneLab still decides the pitch of each note and the octaves.

I had a plan of learning in this order:

1) Learn basic technique. Let TuneLab decide as much as possible, concentrate on hitting the target precisely, setting pins and strings, stability.

2) Unisons. Use TuneLab to tune one string, tune the unisons aurally.

3) Octaves. Let TuneLab make the temperament and tune octaves aurally from that.

4) Full aural tuning. Setting my own temperament, tune unisons and octaves from that.

Does this order make sense?

I guess I have done 1) and 2) for a year now. Should I practice 3) octaves before practicing setting a temperament?

Also, are there temperaments better suited (than ET) for learning aural tuning and tests before attempting ET?

My goal is to be able to tune ET and EBVT-III aurally eventually.


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
(ad 800)
PTG Journal
PTG Journal
#2290418 - 06/16/14 08:59 AM Re: How to get started on aural tuning? [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,400
Ed McMorrow, RPT Offline
4000 Post Club Member
Ed McMorrow, RPT  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 4,400
Seattle, WA USA
The plan makes very good sense. Are you tuning pianos other than yours?


In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible.
According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed.
Contact: Ed@LightHammerpiano.com
#2290429 - 06/16/14 09:20 AM Re: How to get started on aural tuning? [Re: Ed McMorrow, RPT]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 618
pinkfloydhomer Offline
500 Post Club Member
pinkfloydhomer  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 618
Denmark
No, only my own piano smile

When learning to tune the temperament, should I go for ET right away, or are there good "learning" temperaments?


Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004. Yamaha CP33 digital. Sennheiser HD 600.
#2290446 - 06/16/14 10:01 AM Re: How to get started on aural tuning? [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
beethoven986 Offline
3000 Post Club Member
beethoven986  Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,489
Perfectly logical, and more or less how I learned. When you get ready to work on temperament, I recommend Bill Bremmer's ET via Marpurg.

(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2290506 - 06/16/14 12:34 PM Re: How to get started on aural tuning? [Re: pinkfloydhomer]  
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,726
Ed Foote Offline
1000 Post Club Member
Ed Foote  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,726
Tennessee
Greetings,
How to get started in aural tuning? I suggest that the refinement of sensual discernment should proceed the intellectual image of the goal.

The object, at the beginning, is to train your hearing, not to tune a temperament. I suggest that you master the ability to tune a fifth as you like it. It is an easy interval, accessible common overtone, simple tests, and an essential interval to be intimately familiar with. You will need to be able to recognize what shape a fifth is in in order to use them.

Once you can dependably tune a pure fifth, it is not that much more difficult to tune it so that it beats once a second. If you can make a fifth do that, you can proceed on to 3 beats in five. It isn't a hard rate to count or hear.
Once you and the fifth are familiar, and you can make the interval do as you like, it is simple to do the same with a fourth. Learn it, learn to recognize a pure one and one that beats 1.2 times a second. Or once a second. It isn't so important when you first begin, what you want to do is learn to control that interval, because you are going to fit a bunch of them together.

If you can control a fifth and fourth, you can find out what sort of octave results from them. From C4, tune a fifth down, and then tune a fourth up to F4. Don't listen to the octave as you do this, listen when you are done. You should learn to recognize what happens to the octave when you try to use a purer fifth, etc. Become familiar with
how the octave tests and fifth tests can tell you how that particular piano's octaves will relate to its fifths.

The simple analogy is the master cabinet maker didn't begin by cutting wood to length, he began by learning to sharpen his tools, and then learned how those tools worked with the material, then learned how to measure, and THEN, began building his product. Don't try to build the house before you know how to use the saw. You will waste time and usually end up with less than ideal results.
Regards,

#2290621 - 06/16/14 03:55 PM Re: How to get started on aural tuning? [Re: Ed Foote]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Try to listen with a unstressed ear. learn to tune nice unison then slow intervals will be a breeze.

You can train to tune with ear plugs , or with a radio playing, so you are not too much obsessed about partials and pitches but focus on the shape of the tone an its power .

See here I had cleaned all unisons (because there have been a lot of rainy days and the tuning moved.)

I just had to "rebuild them so I did not use a mute and only played with the coupling of frequencies . WHen in the treble I decie to record, as it was not difficult.

Here it is :

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6GjQDkF_AMQb19hSWUydG1IYjQ/edit?usp=sharing

MP3 file, sorry it was recorded with a cell phone, when I play in the end there are effects due to the microphone I think.

Good luck

PS it is a vertical console. good quality - 30 years old +-

Last edited by Olek; 06/16/14 04:30 PM.

Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

Moderated by  Piano World 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Ritmuller Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
Tonal and Rhytmic Principles by John Mehegan
by James in NoVa. 11/24/17 01:12 PM
HiFiMAN HE-400i headphones - Incredible deal
by Max_Forte. 11/24/17 12:29 PM
Getting difficult pieces up to tempo
by noamb. 11/24/17 12:21 PM
Lounge Lizard EP-4 for $89
by Beakybird. 11/24/17 11:28 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics182,923
Posts2,674,000
Members89,179
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0