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Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
#2288362 06/11/14 04:05 AM
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I am trying to be sensitive to the etiquette here regarding my posts ans wanted to know if it was appropriate to ask in general about experiences and reputation with regard to specific resellers. I am beginning my search anew and will start a new thread to document this, but want to make sure I am not breaking the rules or being rude by asking about dealers (pricing I usually avoid discussing because it seems to be an issue here).


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288377 06/11/14 05:24 AM
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Markarian,

Dealers are discussed here all the time. The responses would be more about etiquette than your question, IMHO. You could ask for responses by PM as well, but when there is a good dealer members will know about them. When they aren't such a professional dealer... well, someone will probably know about that as well.

Those are my thoughts anyway.


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Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288382 06/11/14 05:58 AM
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Rich is right. The problem will be with responses rather than the question. Then you would have to consider the reliability of the responses. Think of it, many people hide behind an alias, so some, in their minds, feel they are relatively free to say whatever they want about anyone without consequence. This can be true whether the response is positive or negative. There could be people simply wishing to cause another a headache, and there could be some who wish to promote another. Of course there will also be truthful responses. Problem is, it is not easy to determine what to believe. Then you are back to square one.

Yes, you can ask, but often such topics easily degenerate into mudslinging and end up being moderated in some way.


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Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288393 06/11/14 06:57 AM
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Though, you should watch out for that Galassini guy.

grin

wink


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288399 06/11/14 07:10 AM
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But how well bred of you to ask.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Ken Knapp #2288403 06/11/14 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Knapp

Yes, you can ask, but often such topics easily degenerate into mudslinging and end up being moderated in some way.


Here is where it gets tricky. On the one hand, we as current and future piano owners have much information to share with others, especially in the "what piano should I buy and where" mode. I think our collective goal is to help the future buyer to get the best piano they can afford and be happy with, and at the best price possible.

On the other hand, there are many legitimate and helpful dealers that frequent these forums as well. Their goal obviously is not quite the same. They need to maintain a profit margin and pay the bills. They also have an interest, however, in being fair and equitable to the buyer as well. So what happens when these two interests clash? Well.....

I for one will not be afraid to help those of us in the former group. However, I will try to be as fair and sensitive as possible to the latter group as well. Tricky thing to do obviously.

One concrete thing I have already started doing is only discuss the details of my own piano purchase via PM, so as not to set unrealistic expectations for other buyers, especially when these future buyers are in a market or using a specific dealer where the rules of my purchase may not apply.



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Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288425 06/11/14 08:20 AM
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Recently I had no problem with endorsing a dealer whom I know to be absolute top drawer. If I knew one who was out and out bad I think I would just keep stum. Fortunately I have never encountered such a dealer although I don't doubt, for a moment, that such people exist.

By using a bit of common sense, however, I think the worst possible excesses could be easily avoided.


Currently working towards "Twinkle twinkle little star"
Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
BrianDX #2288430 06/11/14 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by BrianDX

....there are many legitimate and helpful dealers that frequent these forums as well. Their goal obviously is not quite the same. They need to maintain a profit margin and pay the bills. They also have an interest, however, in being fair and equitable to the buyer as well. So what happens when these two interests clash? Well.....


The need to maintain a margin isn't a factor when a dealer discusses a piano purchase outside their market. For example, Rich in Philly has little conflict advising a shopper in Seattle.

My goal in all instances is to try to lead shoppers to the best piano that meets their needs. Perhaps I've worked with Larry Fine too long!!!


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Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288449 06/11/14 09:22 AM
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I've a natural distrust of any sort of review that comes by way of the Internets. Yelp, for instance, is nothing but an extortion racket.


Gary
Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288455 06/11/14 09:30 AM
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I hope that you don't put PW in the same category as Yelp.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Plowboy #2288472 06/11/14 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Plowboy
I've a natural distrust of any sort of review that comes by way of the Internets. Yelp, for instance, is nothing but an extortion racket.

Does that distrust include reviews of reviews on the Internet, on the Internet? crazy

Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
PhilipInChina #2288483 06/11/14 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
But how well bred of you to ask.


He's probably English, Philip. wink

Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Plowboy #2288489 06/11/14 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Plowboy
I've a natural distrust of any sort of review that comes by way of the Internets. Yelp, for instance, is nothing but an extortion racket.


I've wondered about how reliable Yelp is. For example, I inquired about a prominent piano retailer on Yelp. Four out of five reviews were terrible, emphasizing the dealer's refusal to let the customer play certain pianos on his showroom, the dealer's general suspicion of the customer, rudeness, etc. Needless to say, none of the reviewers who had an unpleasant experience bought a piano from this guy.

One out of five reviews, however, were glowing. These reviewers were quite happy with their shopping experience, and most of them DID buy a piano from this guy.

After reading these diametrically opposite reviews of the same retailer, I was beginning to think that this guy should change the name of his business to "Jekyll and Hyde Pianos".

Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288505 06/11/14 11:27 AM
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OK - Judge Yelp for yourself.

Let's put it to the test using Cunningham as an example.

Find "piano stores" Near "Philadelphia, PA"

Notice that Cunningham has only one review and it is negative.

Click on the photo or on Cunningham.

On the new screen, scroll down and click on "12 other reviews that are not currently recommended."

I invite you to make your own assessment of Yelp!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Minnesota Marty #2288518 06/11/14 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
OK - Judge Yelp for yourself.

Let's put it to the test using Cunningham as an example.

Find "piano stores" Near "Philadelphia, PA"

Notice that Cunningham has only one review and it is negative.

Click on the photo or on Cunningham.

On the new screen, scroll down and click on "12 other reviews that are not currently recommended."

I invite you to make your own assessment of Yelp!


Guys, Yelp is for finding out how late a restaurant is open and what they've got on their menu. I'd barely trust them for recommendations for coffee, let alone a piano. It's why I started this thread in the first place.


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Almaviva #2288519 06/11/14 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Almaviva
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
But how well bred of you to ask.


He's probably English, Philip. wink


Or from the Old South.


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Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288524 06/11/14 12:01 PM
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The typical online reviews - 4 out of 5 customers, et al. - are not enough of a sample to be truly representative of a retailer's customer base. Not much better than grapevine, if that.

Last edited by bkw58; 06/11/14 12:59 PM. Reason: typos

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Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
ClsscLib #2288534 06/11/14 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ClsscLib
Originally Posted by Almaviva
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
But how well bred of you to ask.


He's probably English, Philip. wink


Or from the Old South.


Or a snotty kid born and raised in Silicon Valley who's had to teach himself some manners over the years smile


2012 NY Steinway Model B | Kawai MP11 | Nord Stage 3 Compact | Moog Sub 37 | Behringer DeepMind 12 | Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 | Korg Prologue
Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
ClsscLib #2288558 06/11/14 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ClsscLib
Originally Posted by Almaviva
Originally Posted by PhilipInChina
But how well bred of you to ask.


He's probably English, Philip. wink


Or from the Old South.


As an old Southerner myself, I should have thought of that. wink

Re: Is it okay to ask about specific dealers?
Markarian #2288566 06/11/14 01:21 PM
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It's a delicate issue, and for various reasons makes PW an unlikely source for any but positive reviews.

I posted here years ago an unfavorable review of a dealership and promptly received a phone call from that dealer asking me to take it down or I would see legal ramifications.

If I want to see honest opinions, I'll PM someone I believe to be in the know.

For example, I will soon need some serious action work, and I am sure I could get plenty of recommendations of people who "do good work."

If I asked names of rebuilders TO AVOID, I am sure I won't get any responses at all. Or if I do, they will shortly be taken down.

Sorry, but that's just the way it is, as I see it.

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