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Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: BrianDX] #2286832
06/07/14 01:04 AM
06/07/14 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
....
OK here is what I "infer" from your "implication": You really need to work on your "pet peeves", especially in a forum where you are judged by how you treat other folks. Perhaps other folks might "infer" that you are acting like a jerk.


We're getting way off topic here, but my take on ando's post is that he corrected your English, and in my eyes, he did so in the spirit of helping you improve the communication of your ideas. You OTOH attacked him personally.

Perhaps we all just need to step back, take a deep breath, and listen to and play good music. I know that doing this works wonders for me.

Last edited by petes1; 06/07/14 01:06 AM.

Keys: Yamaha GC2, Casio Privia PX-3, Roland RD800, Alesis VI61, Pianoteq 6.0
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Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: 36251] #2286833
06/07/14 01:05 AM
06/07/14 01:05 AM
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smile I like pianos. smile
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Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: petes1] #2286837
06/07/14 01:17 AM
06/07/14 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by petes1

Perhaps we all just need to step back, take a deep breath, and listen to and play good music.


Here's some! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNoBoeg8j4I

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: BrianDX] #2286842
06/07/14 01:34 AM
06/07/14 01:34 AM
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In order to clarify my previous post: My perspective for what is is worth, is that the sound of an instrument will affect my perception of how it feels whether or not this is a reality. I guess an example is trying to play an organ patch on the greatest piano action in the world. I have trouble with that. In the same way that I could not overcome a great piano sound on a dp with a crappy action any more than I could the reverse. An acoustic piano is always dynamic with respect to sounding different every day dependent on a variety of factors. A digital instrument will always be static and I tend to analyse the sound over time and become bored with it. The action of any instrument, whether digital or acoustic will be dynamic to a degree, dependent on initial quality/design and of service and condition. I concur with the caveat that given comparable sounds, then one would shop re: the feel of an instrument. These opinions are, me my mine, and not objective. And not intended as anything but a reflection of my personal thoughts. The choice of an instrument should, of course, always be guided by individual taste and experience.

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: 36251] #2286844
06/07/14 01:52 AM
06/07/14 01:52 AM
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Of course, you want sound and action to both meet at least some level of acceptable threshold. Beyond that, for home use, I'd probably prioritize action, because it's usually possible to improve the sound if need be (i.e. via VST), while there's nothing you can do about the action. For gigging purposes, you're more likely to be stuck with the sound you have, though at least that's somewhat balanced by the fact that you're probably playing in an environment where the subtleties of better sound quality are likely to be less noticeable anyway, especially if you're playing in a band (as opposed to solo gigs). Personally, for gigging, a third criteria takes priority, travel weight. That doesn't mean I'd take the lightest model no matter what, but it does mean I eliminate from contention anything above 35 lbs. Again, it's not about finding "perfect" in any one way, but instead first meeting a certain acceptable threshold for each parameter.

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: 36251] #2286866
06/07/14 03:35 AM
06/07/14 03:35 AM
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Well said, Scott!

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: 36251] #2286904
06/07/14 07:50 AM
06/07/14 07:50 AM
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For me, the best combination on a DP for sound (speaker quality mixed with a great sample set) and action (wooden spruce keys with a grand piano hammer feel) that I have played has been my CLP990 from Yamaha. I like the sound coming out of the speakers better than the Avantgrand series as well. When listening through headphones I play my V-Piano as that provides me with a more realistic sound while playing, however the V-Piano keyboard doesn't match the Yamaha's CLP990 which was unique to that digital piano. Through midi I have connected my CLP990 to the V-Piano and can use the CLP990's keys with the V-Piano's more organic sound combined with the CLP990's and I like what I hear.

Both sound and action are equally as important. I would argue sound is more important than action if you are a recording musician. However action would be better for you over sound if you are a classical pianist that needs more precise playing. In my case I need both being excellent which thank God is what I have.


Roland V-Piano, Yamaha CLP990, Yamaha S90
Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: BrianDX] #2286960
06/07/14 12:15 PM
06/07/14 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
Originally Posted by ando
You mean "imply". You imply something, then we infer something from that. Sorry, it's a pet peeve - I hear this misuse of infer all the time. crazy

Boy thank goodness I didn't misuse "affect" or "effect". I hear that messed up all of the time.

OK here is what I "infer" from your "implication": You really need to work on your "pet peeves", especially in a forum where you are judged by how you treat other folks. Perhaps other folks might "infer" that you are acting like a jerk.



Yes, that's perfect! You might be angry with me, but you'll never be confused about those words again, so it's not all bad. smile No harm intended, Brian. Best wishes.

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: petes1] #2286962
06/07/14 12:19 PM
06/07/14 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by petes1
Originally Posted by BrianDX
....
OK here is what I "infer" from your "implication": You really need to work on your "pet peeves", especially in a forum where you are judged by how you treat other folks. Perhaps other folks might "infer" that you are acting like a jerk.


We're getting way off topic here, but my take on ando's post is that he corrected your English, and in my eyes, he did so in the spirit of helping you improve the communication of your ideas. You OTOH attacked him personally.

Perhaps we all just need to step back, take a deep breath, and listen to and play good music. I know that doing this works wonders for me.


Thanks, Pete. And yes, it was done with good intentions. I feel that precision with language is on the decline and that it's really important for our society because good communication is vital to our future prospects.

I didn't get upset by Brian's reply - he's entitled to feel how he likes. My post wasn't done with malicious intentions. Glad you saw it that way, Pete, so thanks again. smile

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: Kona_V-Piano] #2286963
06/07/14 12:25 PM
06/07/14 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Kona_V-Piano
For me, the best combination on a DP for sound (speaker quality mixed with a great sample set) and action (wooden spruce keys with a grand piano hammer feel) that I have played has been my CLP990 from Yamaha. I like the sound coming out of the speakers better than the Avantgrand series as well. When listening through headphones I play my V-Piano as that provides me with a more realistic sound while playing, however the V-Piano keyboard doesn't match the Yamaha's CLP990 which was unique to that digital piano. Through midi I have connected my CLP990 to the V-Piano and can use the CLP990's keys with the V-Piano's more organic sound combined with the CLP990's and I like what I hear.

Both sound and action are equally as important. I would argue sound is more important than action if you are a recording musician. However action would be better for you over sound if you are a classical pianist that needs more precise playing. In my case I need both being excellent which thank God is what I have.


That's interesting, Kona. I've never played a CLP990, but if the action is that good, it makes you wonder why they didn't keep it going on their top of the range Clavinovas as a premium action. It obviously has great durability too. I saw from PV88's posts that it is able to be fully regulated too. It's like an early incarnation of Kawai's GF action in a way. Pity they ditched it because Yamaha actions have often been described as a little behind Roland and Kawai.

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: ando] #2286973
06/07/14 12:49 PM
06/07/14 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
Thanks, Pete. And yes, it was done with good intentions. I feel that precision with language is on the decline and that it's really important for our society because good communication is vital to our future prospects.

I didn't get upset by Brian's reply - he's entitled to feel how he likes. My post wasn't done with malicious intentions. Glad you saw it that way, Pete, so thanks again. smile

OK folks I'm a strong believer in live and let live. But I think you are missing the point. The original comment to my eye WAS a personal attack. See it my way. I tried to add some thoughts about this topic that I thought would help some folks. Yet, the only comment you answered with was correcting a word that I used. I would not be surprised if a lot of folks in this forum would feel as I did.

There are lots of participants in the forum who obviously do not speak or write English as a primary language. I see lots of incorrect grammar usage, spelling mistakes, etc. Not once have I ever tried to correct or dress down someone for this. The reason: Despite my intentions, I'm always thinking about how someone will feel if I try to correct their text in that sort of way.

I'm not questioning your intentions, as I have no idea idea who you are or what you were thinking. However, I do question your judgement in this specific matter.

Sorry, but IMHO this forum is not the place or time to impart your concerns about the decline of language. If you feel differently, well, we will have to agree to disagree.


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: BrianDX] #2286980
06/07/14 01:12 PM
06/07/14 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
Originally Posted by ando
Thanks, Pete. And yes, it was done with good intentions. I feel that precision with language is on the decline and that it's really important for our society because good communication is vital to our future prospects.

I didn't get upset by Brian's reply - he's entitled to feel how he likes. My post wasn't done with malicious intentions. Glad you saw it that way, Pete, so thanks again. smile

OK folks I'm a strong believer in live and let live. But I think you are missing the point. The original comment to my eye WAS a personal attack. See it my way. I tried to add some thoughts about this topic that I thought would help some folks. Yet, the only comment you answered with was correcting a word that I used. I would not be surprised if a lot of folks in this forum would feel as I did.

There are lots of participants in the forum who obviously do not speak or write English as a primary language. I see lots of incorrect grammar usage, spelling mistakes, etc. Not once have I ever tried to correct or dress down someone for this. The reason: Despite my intentions, I'm always thinking about how someone will feel if I try to correct their text in that sort of way.

I'm not questioning your intentions, as I have no idea idea who you are or what you were thinking. However, I do question your judgement in this specific matter.

Sorry, but IMHO this forum is not the place or time to impart your concerns about the decline of language.



I'm sorry you're so upset about this, Brian. You don't need to worry about my reputation on the forum - that's my issue to deal with. I'm bemused that you say you have no idea of who I am or my intentions, but you are convinced it was a personal attack on you. This is really about your personal reaction to what I said, not about your concern for my reputation or the countless victims I might amass with my brutal posting style. But that's fair enough - you are a person and you had a reaction.

I'm sorry you have taken this the way you have. I sincerely mean that. It wasn't a personal attack. I like you, Brian. I've read lots of your posts. And you are right, I would never correct somebody who I think has any real vulnerabilities with the English language. I've read and enjoyed many of your posts, Brian - you write well and intelligently - and on subjects that are of interest to me. That's actually why I felt it was pretty safe to offer you a pointer on one word - not because your English is bad, but because it is very good. I wouldn't mind at all if you point out a word I had misused because I know my English is pretty good so I wouldn't take it as a slight - I'm happy to improve. I'll be careful whom I "correct" in future - if only because I don't want to upset you further.

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: ando] #2286985
06/07/14 01:30 PM
06/07/14 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
I'm sorry you have taken this the way you have. I sincerely mean that. It wasn't a personal attack. I like you, Brian. I've read lots of your posts. And you are right, I would never correct somebody who I think has any real vulnerabilities with the English language. I've read and enjoyed many of your posts, Brian - you write well and intelligently - and on subjects that are of interest to me. That's actually why I felt it was pretty safe to offer you a pointer on one word - not because your English is bad, but because it is very good. I wouldn't mind at all if you point out a word I had misused because I know my English is pretty good so I wouldn't take it as a slight - I'm happy to improve. I'll be careful whom I "correct" in future - if only because I don't want to upset you further.

Fair enough. And thanks for your kind words about my posts. I really do appreciate it. I guess your comments last night (at 1 AM in the morning for me) just rubbed me the wrong way at the time. We're good smile


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: BrianDX] #2287001
06/07/14 02:01 PM
06/07/14 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
Originally Posted by ando
I'm sorry you have taken this the way you have. I sincerely mean that. It wasn't a personal attack. I like you, Brian. I've read lots of your posts. And you are right, I would never correct somebody who I think has any real vulnerabilities with the English language. I've read and enjoyed many of your posts, Brian - you write well and intelligently - and on subjects that are of interest to me. That's actually why I felt it was pretty safe to offer you a pointer on one word - not because your English is bad, but because it is very good. I wouldn't mind at all if you point out a word I had misused because I know my English is pretty good so I wouldn't take it as a slight - I'm happy to improve. I'll be careful whom I "correct" in future - if only because I don't want to upset you further.

Fair enough. And thanks for your kind words about my posts. I really do appreciate it. I guess your comments last night (at 1 AM in the morning for me) just rubbed me the wrong way at the time. We're good smile


Good to know, Brian. smile

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: 36251] #2287053
06/07/14 04:33 PM
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Iím glad that ando and BrianDX have ended their exchange on civil terms.

As a lifelong member of the Grammar Police, I sympathize with andoís pet peeve.

OTOH, as Iíve been reminded on a couple of occasions, publicly correcting another personís usage or grammar may very reasonably be perceived as rude. There is a certain presumption inherent in publicly schooling folks about their use of language, which good intentions do not necessarily excuse.

May I suggest that it might be better to conduct such exchanges by PM and not in public?

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: slowtraveler] #2287113
06/07/14 08:45 PM
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So....... How about those Yamaha, Roland, and Kawai digital piano choices????? wink


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Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: BrianDX] #2287119
06/07/14 08:59 PM
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smile

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: BrianDX] #2287128
06/07/14 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
So....... How about those Yamaha, Roland, and Kawai digital piano choices????? wink

Like you, I'd give first priority to the (admittedly, very subjective) quality of the action in an instrument intended for practicing at home, though as anotherscott says, the decision matrix is different when you're planning to tote the thing around or play out in public.

As a follow-on to the saga of the RD-800 and its power receptacle, I also wonder about a successor to the RD-300NX. History would suggest that such a product is due pretty soon (summer NAMM, maybe?). It would be interesting if Roland decided produce a lighter-weight stage piano with the new PHA4 Standard action, which Jay Roland has characterized as "vastly improved from the previous Ivory Feel-G." But will they still have to deal with the power-plug issue?

Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: slowtraveler] #2287149
06/07/14 10:47 PM
06/07/14 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by slowtraveler


As a follow-on to the saga of the RD-800 and its power receptacle,

I seriously read that as, "the RD-800 and its power spectacle."

But back OT, I do think there are those who may not really care about a great action, or perhaps it's secondary to the sound, namely those who do a lot of gigging. Weight would also be a huge consideration.


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Re: Yamaha, Roland, Kawai... [Re: slowtraveler] #2287179
06/08/14 12:58 AM
06/08/14 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by slowtraveler
Iím glad that ando and BrianDX have ended their exchange on civil terms.

As a lifelong member of the Grammar Police, I sympathize with andoís pet peeve.

OTOH, as Iíve been reminded on a couple of occasions, publicly correcting another personís usage or grammar may very reasonably be perceived as rude. There is a certain presumption inherent in publicly schooling folks about their use of language, which good intentions do not necessarily excuse.

May I suggest that it might be better to conduct such exchanges by PM and not in public?


I also notice the lapses from good grammar common on internet forums ("imply, infer"; "fewer, less"; "affect, effect"; "its, it's"; and so much more), but I've learned to keep quiet about them. I participate in another forum which has a strict rule not to correct the grammar or spelling of others. The reason is that (not "the reason is because") educational levels vary, and many participants are not native English speakers. We're here to have a civil discourse about interests we share in common, not to teach English. Even so, I always appreciate posters who make a special effort to communicate well, including correct use of the language. Perhaps we best make our point about correct usage by employing it.

Last edited by Savante; 06/08/14 01:02 AM.
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