Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum How to learn the scales?

Hello everybody,

This week I started to learn the major scales. But I'm not sure to make it in the right way. What do you suggest me: Learn them by heart (F=1 flattened note, Gflat=2 flattened notes, etc.) or learn them by repeating them and counting tones?
It's maybe a weird question, but I'm not confident enough and I don't want to waste time.
Thank you.

Are you asking about what notes are included in a major scale, what fingering to use, or something else? Sorry, I just couldn't grasp what you were asking right away.

The Gb (G flat) major scale is not two flatted notes, but six, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb and Cb (= B.) Bb (B flat) does however include two flatted notes, Bb and Eb.

That aside, the circle of fifths is a great tool to help you learning scales.

http://www.circleoffifths.com/

There are a few phrases that have been used to help people remember the order (and number of flats and sharps.) For the sharps one common phrase is Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle. For the flats, the same phrase (almost) backwards. Battle Ends And Down Goes Charles. For further explanations, see the above link.

One more thing that might help, is learning the formula for every major scale. Start with the first note of the scale, and then: Tone-tone-semitone-tone-tone-tone-semitone, or TTSTTTS. T = tone and S = semitone. A semitone is the next note, black or white, and a tone is the second next note.

One of the first things I learned, and have actually remembered, was this rule for scales and, if I am not mistaken, it works for all of them:

Tone
Tone
Semi-Tone
Tone
Tone
Tone
Semi-Tone

So, for the C Major Scale,
starting on C,
you then go up one Full Tone to D
you then go up one Full Tone to E
you then go up one Semi-Tone to F
you then go up one Full Tone to G
you then go up one Full Tone to A
you then go up one Full Tone to B
and finally one Semi-Tone and you are back at C

It works for G, D, F, A, etc., etc., etc.

I learned something musical and it stuck - yipee for me!

One thing you want to be very acute of is the sound of a major scale no matter what the starting note is. To put the requirement in order:

1. The sound of a major scale.
2. The interval pattern of a major scale.
3. Playing the major scale.

1. Did you ever see the movie: The Sound of Music?


2. The Pattern is: W W H W W W H (W=Whole Step) (H=Half Step) With this pattern you can figure the major scale from any starting point (key). And.... likewise, if you know how to sing the major scale, which you should, you can figure it by ear with any starting key but know the pattern is important.

3. How to play? The fingering part. You can find carts that will show the fingering for every key and for both hands.

The charts are likely to show (finger numbers) 1 through 5 beginning with the thumb on both hands. The thumb being finger number 1 and you baby finger being finger number 5.

For the RH to play the C major scale (all white keys):

123 crossover thumb 1234 (12312345) if you were to continue on and play two octaves: 123 1234 123 12345 (5) being the baby finger because you have ended it there.

Not all key begin with the (1) finger. Left hand scales begin with the (5) finger.

Get a chart and you will see what I mean.

In the mean time, the first thing to know is the major scale by ear. Know it sing it and sing it from all starting points.

You learn both but over quite a period of time. I have a large print out of the circle of fifths in front of my keyboard to help with this. But naturally you will only learn by repetition of the scales.

You can memorize how many black keys make up a major scale for any number of keys and you can refer to the circle of fifths but the best way to know it; is as a pattern. The pattern is unchanging. You can figure any scale without charts with knowing just the interval pattern. It is utmost important from the beginning to know the scale by ear. It is important to know music by ear period. Just my opinion.

When I was in grade school, we were taught to sing (Do Re mi) before we knew anything about music. It just became a familiar song. I could sing it in any key. That single thing became an invaluable piece of knowledge with future music study.

The circle of fifths came as a result of the scales, not the other way around.

Yes, by counting tones. Always know how to find them in any key by your system of counting them. I don't think it is important to memorize them all. Others might.

Firstly, by the book dedicated to learn scales. Especialy with minors you will have problems, as they are not so easy as major ones. Tonally and with fingerings, there are different schools.

REgarding the whell of fifths, it's easy and best for you to do your own well, you will do this within 10 second on keyboard. STart from C and on each 5th is starting another scale with one # more. For other combinations the equation differs

You can call it tones and semi-tones or you can call it steps and half-steps. It doesn't matter. You should be able to place your finger on any key and walk up a major scale by simply visually seeing the pattern: WW H WWW H. I prefer to say "whole and half" for steps. You don't even need to know the name of the notes and still be able to play a major scale using this pattern.

It's important to see and know this pattern because it gives way to what the circle of 5ths is all about and other theoretical elements. The circle of 5ths became the result of the pattern. So it is my opinion to learn and know this interval pattern that makes up the major scale. To me it is so basic it's often overlooked for something more unnecessarily complicated.

It's just a pattern but one that is absolutely fundamental to our diatonic system of music. The pattern is simple to memorize and simple to see. To know and understand what you are playing is to also see what you are playing on the keyboard.

My point is:

Is that the circle of 5ths did not establish the major scale interval pattern by which we see black keys, sharps or flats, as a result.

But rather: The circle of 5ths became circumstantial. In other words: It just turned out that way mathematically.

The circle of 5ths is a terrific reference, don't get me wrong.

I agree with this. No question. So, why bother?
I do not know my minor scales. I have no plans to learn them now. There are too many of them. It looks confusing to me, so I've never bothered with it much. I prefer to work on other things. Lastly, I don't see how it can help me. I'll still play in any key.

However, I understand that this may not be good advice for others that may be learning under a disciplined approach that includes scales. In my experience, scales have never been important.

Just another perspective though.

What do you mean, there are too many of them? There are 3 primary if you want to call them primary. The main 3 and only one that is relative to the major and that's the one you start with and understand first.

It is call the "Natural" minor scale and guess what? It utilizes the same exact notes as the major scale. What could be easier then that? but what is then the difference: OK.... this:

First: look at the C major scale. All white keys, right. OK now look at it's relative natural minor scale. It begins on A. It's the A minor natural scale and it also uses all the same white keys. What could go wrong.

Both scales, same notes... so again what's the difference? The "shift". The natural minor begins on A while the relative major begins on C and they both, as I said, use just the same white keys.

Now: What else is the same and different at the same time? The "PATTERN"...! Accept the pattern is shifted when beginning on A versus C. That's the only difference you need to realize and hear. You can hear the difference of this scale being minor "merely due to the pattern shift".

Do you know what I mean by pattern shift?

Realize the pattern only "shifted" it's not "different". The two patterns are actually identical only they are shifted. The minor pattern simply begins 3 half steps down from the major scale. That makes it appear to be different but it's not, only shifted. Out of phase, so to speak.

Once you see this NATURAL MINOR scale the other two primary minor scales are equally simple. They are called: The Harmonic and Melodic minor scale. You can't begin to understand them if you don't see and realize how simple and relative the "Natural Minor" scale is to the Major scale. This is the first thing to see on the keyboard and when you use C as your reference Key, all the more simple because you're dealing with only the white keys on the keyboard.

Personally I think learning scales by pattern is more effective. It's easier to learn one pattern than to memorize 12 scales. The trick is to visualize the scale pattern on the piano.

I put together a free video on scales and how to play and master them.
Mods, if this is crossing a line, please let me know. I don't want to step on toes. But here is the way I like to think of learning scales.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ApWVWSJltQ

Thank you guys, I can not name all of you, but I read you with
interest. I'll read your replies again and learn from them.
Russ, I really appreciated your replies, thank you!
Brian, I watched your video, it's great. I suscribed to your channel

Brian, I liked the clarity of your video. It was well presented which makes it easy too follow.

Excellent video Brian. Basically what I was trying to convey in words.

I have another question. I try to learn to improvize with Jamey Aebersold's method. He suggests to learn the scale to the 9th. Do you know why he goes to the 9th? The most of people learn the scale to the 8th.

Actually, when you first learn scales you go only one octave or to the 8th as you say. Later on, you would be practicing scales of at least 2 octaves or more, I guess the idea of being able to scale the entire length of the keyboard.

Learning to scale to the 9th would be the beginning of scaling beyond one octave as I stated above. As to why? I don't know. To me, if you're going to scale to the 9th, why not learn to just scale two octaves.

Yes, I began to learn like this, so I'll learn to scale two octaves
Thank you Russ!