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If you'd like to perform in a recital where we plan and perform a program together then sign up here! We'll create a program meant to be heard as a meaningful, beautiful and entertaining whole.
Please sign up for 15 minutes of time by responding to this thread. I just need your name. We'll determine the pieces as a group once we know who is performing. You can share your 15-minute slot with someone else if you know you'll both play something short. There is a maximum of 2 hours. If more people sign up then some people will be on a sub list in case of a cancellation. If not many people sign up then performers can have more time each.
Once the list of performers is set, program planning will happen on this thread. It would be great to have the whole community, not just those performing, involved in choosing repertoire and order. Non-performing listeners can make requests too! Hopefully we can come to a consensus together. Performers do make the final decision on what they play, and I decide the order.
I will post the program list on this thread as it continues to develop over the coming weeks.
The performance will be posted as a soundcloud set (playlist) on Friday, July 25 at noon EST. There will be a separate thread for the performance, discussion, and any program notes that the performers would like to share.
Submission deadline is Thursday, July 24 at noon EST. Please send submissions to me over PM in a way that allows me to download .wav or .mp3. Cut-and-paste editing is allowed; no tempo changes, dynamic changes, pitch changes etc., and absolutely no plagiarism.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
I'd like to join as well. I will also be playing several shorter pieces rather than a long one. I can assure you that the pieces won't be as impressive as Poly's, though. :P
If I understand this correctly we first sign up to say we're interested in participating. What piece we end up playing will be determined later according to signing up what's on the recital program and what each performer selects from that program?
Heather, with this reply, consider me signed up. I have several options for a 15 minute slot -- let's see who else is interested, and I can adjust the repertoire to fit a consensus for the recital "theme".
P.S. Leave it for late July, as you have listed -- I won't be around to record in late June - early July.
If I understand this correctly we first sign up to say we're interested in participating. What piece we end up playing will be determined later according to signing up what's on the recital program and what each performer selects from that program?
Is this correct?
Hi Vid, Yes, and you will be part of deciding what's on the program, based on what you'd like to perform.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
How does this work? Do we submit a repertoire list from which y'all chose one or more pieces for the recital, or do we have to learn new music by JULY??
I assume you learn the music for the recital - you have two whole months, after all. At least I'm going to be playing new pieces, using it as an opportunity to expand my repertoire.
If I understand this correctly we first sign up to say we're interested in participating. What piece we end up playing will be determined later according to signing up what's on the recital program and what each performer selects from that program?
Is this correct?
Hi Vid, Yes, and you will be part of deciding what's on the program, based on what you'd like to perform.
It seems to me like a most bizarre way of preparing a recital program : - we sign up because we are interested in performing, not knowing what we will be playing or whether what we want to play will be "acceptable" or "appropriate" for the recital. - then, when the requisite number of people are signed up (that's determined how? since we don't know what we will play, nor for how long we will play except that we are limited to 15 minutes) - then everyone signed up mutually contributes suggestions as to what the program will be, presumably based on what each of those individuals wants to play or has ready to play - then someone makes the final decision and does what: gives final blessing to some of the proposed suggestions and eliminates others?
We'll determine the pieces as a group once we know who is performing.
... and how are "we" going to do that when we don't know what is in the repertoire list of those wanting to perform. Does everyone list all the pieces s/he wishes to perform and we choose from among them? What if the "choice" made isn't the performer's preferred piece?
It would be great to have the whole community, not just those performing, involved in choosing repertoire and order. Non-performing listeners can make requests too! Hopefully we can come to a consensus together. Performers do make the final decision on what they play,
The whole community weighs in on what they want to hear in this recital choosing from what list? The community makes the choice, but the performers make the final decision and Heather gives the final approval? If I am performing and the community decides what I should play but I have the final decision and we are at odds, what then?
Isn't this the most involved, convoluted way of trying to "organize" a recital? By the time the requisite number of performers is achieved, the lists of repertoire are posted and the community votes, it will probably be August!
By the time the requisite number of performers is achieved, the lists of repertoire are posted and the community votes, it will probably be August!
Seeing as 7 out of the 8 performers have already signed up, I don't think the first item on that list is going to take very long. As for the second step, I don't see why repertoire lists would be posted, since it seems like a key aspect of this recital is flexibility. The third step, given an efficient discussion/voting process, I can't see taking very long either - the entire initial process should take under a week.
That's kind of how I see it too. I can see where Bruce's kinds of questions are coming from too, but this just 'feels' like a thing where it has a great chance to work out fine, despite the looseness. It seems like a thing where Heather has a nice basic idea and a good handle on how to work it out. Yes, it's a little vague, but judging from the degree of interest and the tone of how it's all being presented and discussed, I think the kinds of things Bruce is asking about will work themselves out step-by-step as the group goes along. It'll be interesting to see. If it's successful, which I think it will be, I think the process itself might be as interesting and fun as the music itself.
I think it's an interesting idea and don't really understand all the critiques. If you don't want to participate, then don't participate. Geez...
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)
I think it's an interesting idea and don't really understand all the critiques. If you don't want to participate, then don't participate. Geez...
I think it is probable that folks would like to participate but aren't comfortable not knowing how long they are going to have to prepare. It should be interesting, though.
I think it's an interesting idea and don't really understand all the critiques. If you don't want to participate, then don't participate. Geez...
Originally Posted by Kreisler
I think it's an interesting idea and don't really understand all the critiques. If you don't want to participate, then don't participate. Geez...
Geez, yourself!! If I am not bright enough to have “seen the light,” at least give me the right to ask questions and get clarification without summarily dismissing me as uninterested!
Yes, I wanted to participate, but the parameters seem to indicate that only after the participants were accepted would the program be decided, a “meaningful, beautiful and entertaining whole.”
- Not knowing what the program is going to be, why would one sign up without knowing what is going to be accepted as part of this “meaningful, beautiful whole”? I imagine that I sign up, but when I indicate what I want to play, my repertoire pieces are neither “meaningful” nor “beautiful” and they don’t fit the program. So then what, I am dismissed and someone else is chosen?
- If others choose the program, but the performer has the final decision on his/her choice, isn’t that somewhat of a contradiction? The idea that the whole community will be “making requests” of just eight or nine people suggests that there may well be many “requests” which aren’t in anyone’s repertoire. Or are these community members to choose from a list that the performers will make public?
Finally, why should others decide what I should play, even if I have final decision?
Bruce: I'm guessing strongly and pretty confidently that it'll be a lot less iffy than what you're afraid of. I'd bet that everyone (everyone!) will be able to play what they want to play. I can imagine -- just fr'instance -- that if there's overlap between people's pieces, someone might be asked to omit a piece, maybe substitute something else if they can; or, maybe for another reason, Heather might (maybe -- dunno, just thinking out loud) -- might ask someone if maybe they can play some different piece if she has the impression that the person could probably do it pretty easily and that it might make for an even better program. I think for the most part Heather will just be arranging the things that people want to play into a good program -- and (and maybe she herself hasn't thought of this yet, but I can imagine it playing out this way) ....that to whatever extent she is left feeling that something is missing, she herself will play something different than exactly what she had planned, or that she might reach out to someone extra to play some additional piece. Stuff like that.
Just guessing about the details -- but I'm thinking pretty confidently that the things you're worried about won't happen. I wouldn't necessarily automatically think this in such a situation, but in view of exactly who is involved, that's my impression. Heather seems to be an unusually good and sensitive managerial type.
Heather, since we now have seven entrants (seven and a half, if we count BruceD), I will propose three options for my 15 minute segment:
1 Selected works of Federico Mompou -- ("Fetes Lointaines", a Cancion y Danza (of my choosing) , "Jeunes Filles au Jardin", "Lago")
2 Three WTC Preludes/Fugues -- choice TBD, maybe mine,maybe yours in this case)
3 Tonal works from the past 20 years (Danielpour, Picker, Smit, Welcher, Torke, Zaimont).
Actually, it now seems to me appropriate for the other contributore to say what they want to record and perform as well -- it would give us all a chance to see if there is some commonality in "theme", however broad.
I think we'll probably end up thinking of sample rectal programs. Really, it seem to me, the name of the game is convenience. We have the option of playing anything. We can revive music and play it. We can learn entirely new music if we have the courage. If we want to, we can think up a certain theme. Heck, if we want to do a major work we can spread out movement's between people. Anything goes as long as we can make a coherent whole out of it. The only limiting factors are time and the skill of each respective participant. It's not all that different, to me, from putting together a studio recital in college.
I was going to suggest Bach-Busoni Chorale Preludes and a short work by Chopin/Scriabin.
BTW if you felt like making your whole thing a set of Chorale Preludes, or even just plain Bach chorales (!) I think we'd have a huge appetite for that.
To be honest I was thinking of playing the Bach french suite no.4 in Eb, which will (hopefully) be ready by the end of July. Right now, I've finished the Allemande and Gavotte, and halfway through everything else except the courante (haven't touched that one yet). I presume that the sarabande will be done in a couple of days, giving me ample time to wrap up the rest by the end of july.
Oh! Also by then I'll probably have Debussy's First arabesque at a decent level.
I think it's an interesting idea and don't really understand all the critiques. If you don't want to participate, then don't participate. Geez...
I think it is probable that folks would like to participate but aren't comfortable not knowing how long they are going to have to prepare.
That was stated clearly in the inital post. You will have until Thursday, July 24.
That's a deadline, not preparation time. Unless you can decide right now, exactly what you will play, the preparation time shrinks. Not as clear as you suppose.
I think it's an interesting idea and don't really understand all the critiques. If you don't want to participate, then don't participate. Geez...
I think it is probable that folks would like to participate but aren't comfortable not knowing how long they are going to have to prepare.
That was stated clearly in the inital post. You will have until Thursday, July 24.
That's a deadline, not preparation time. Unless you can decide right now, exactly what you will play...
The preparation time is from whenever the repertoire is decided to the deadline. If you are worried about the repertoire decision, or that the preparation time will not be sufficient, don't enter.
As I'm "half-retiring" from my job at the end of June, and there seems to be room for one more, I'll climb on board. Repertoire will be all Chopin, chosen from or added to the list in my signature
ec Long Beach, CA *********************
Chopin - Nocturnes, Op. 62 Chopin, Fantaisie, Op. 49 Mozart - Fantasia, Op. 475; Sonata, C minor, K. 457 Bach -Toccata, D Major
I think what's proposed is crystal clear and no more or less good than any other proposal, but then so is the English language to me and plenty of people can't read that; it's okay to be a tad skeptical or even downright sure that it won't work but, um, I see promise at least; if it doesn't work, we'll know in two months. If it does, then...well, it does See...if ec wants to play all Chopin, fine, but ec *may* suggest that s/he'd like to hear some Ravel, which very well may prompt, say, Tim to change his proposed pieces...um...like, certainly he's stated that he'll consider *which* WTC he'd play based on suggestion (I believe )...um...it's a nice idea. Perhaps a touch unclear to some but I'm *sure* with a little time it'll be crystalline. As for myself...I'd like to play the first contrapunctus from KDF, Stanchinsky's second mazurka (and maybe his variations...maybe...if I can get them good enough ), Gibbons's pavan/pavane/paevan of Lord/Lorde Salisbury/Salysbree etc. The Allemande from his grounds and perhaps one of his French Courante's to make up the time, if it's necessary...but...um...I'm not locked into playing those pieces, I'd just like them Xxx
Sometimes, we all just need to be shown a little kindness <3
I think it's an interesting idea and don't really understand all the critiques. If you don't want to participate, then don't participate. Geez...
I think it is probable that folks would like to participate but aren't comfortable not knowing how long they are going to have to prepare.
That was stated clearly in the inital post. You will have until Thursday, July 24.
That's a deadline, not preparation time. Unless you can decide right now, exactly what you will play...
The preparation time is from whenever the repertoire is decided to the deadline. If you are worried about the repertoire decision, or that the preparation time will not be sufficient, don't enter.
I never intended to enter. I was just noting a possible reason others would be nervous to do so. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.
Okay folks, we now have the list of performers: Polyphonist Tim Adrianson Pover doctor S FSO Vid MikeN ec
From the suggested list of pieces so far, what do you think about using counterpoint as a way to tie the recital together? Several people have suggested Bach and Bach derivatives. Tim, I don't know specific works by the composers you mentioned in detail but I wonder if one might be a good 20th-21st c. contrapuntal work? And ec, Chopin is underrated as a master of counterpoint...
Part of why I thought of this recital idea was that I've noticed an interesting obsession with concert programming, choosing repertoire/order in this forum. I thought this would be a way to use it productively. It's OK if it isn't everyone's cup of tea. It would be nice if hecklers would at least keep their comments short so that those trying to plan don't have to scroll through pages of comments that are just anti-this-recital.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
From the suggested list of pieces so far, what do you think about using counterpoint as a way to tie the recital together? Several people have suggested Bach and Bach derivatives. Tim, I don't know specific works by the composers you mentioned in detail but I wonder if one might be a good 20th-21st c. contrapuntal work? And ec, Chopin is underrated as a master of counterpoint...
(Caution: Unorthodox idea ahead. Click at your own risk.)
We alternate Bach pieces with 19th + 20th century works.
Rotfl, what is it with me and the typos today. I swear I proofread before I post. Thanks for the reference Mark.
On other notes, I haven't any ideas of what to submit as I'm not learning anything that fits within the time limit. Yet, I want to learn something new for this. So whatever is needed to make the recital work better, let me know and I'll learn it.
Heather, I've got two 21st century works that directly "fill the bill" for a contrapuntal "theme". One is entitled "13 Ways of Looking at the Goldberg", which is a composite of variations submitted by 13 different composers on the famous Goldberg aria. I'll choose 4 - 5 from that set, most likely Higdon, Foss, jazz pianist Fred Hersch, Bolcom, and maybe Fred Lerdahl. This was a project undertaken and sponsored by the Gilmore Keyboard Festival several years ago.
The other is another work of Hersch entitled "24 Variations on a Bach Chorale". I won't play all the variations -- just the ones that most directly fit the contrapuntal theme.
OK, my plans are set! Now I've got a lot of work to do!
This sounds like a terrific idea but now that I've finally calmed down from the stress of having a deadline, I think I'd find another deadline about as enjoyable as piano rectal.
Am I getting this, the piece(s) must be contrapuntal? Does anything on my list above from 3 AM this morning qualify? 'Could possibly do the Bach-Petri chorale prelude transcription "I step Before Thy Throne, Lord" or the Bach-Petri "Sheep May Safely Graze" from the Birthday Contata, or the Bach-Petri "Three Minuets", which would be "new". If it must be Bach: Preludes and Fugues No. VIII F# Major and/or No. XV G Major, or the D Major Toccata are less new.
But I am getting old..."new" Bach might be harder than polishing a Chopin etude.
I like the idea of ALTERNATING BACH WITH 19th c. AND LATER PIECES, but I'm not enough of a musicologist to know whether any particular "modern" piece provides sufficient thematic veneration. Does it have to say "contrapuntal" in the title?
I can't drop out: you need a doctor for a proper piano rectal.
I like the idea of ALTERNATING BACH WITH 19th c. AND LATER PIECES, but I'm not enough of a musicologist to know whether any particular "modern" piece provides sufficient thematic veneration. Does it have to say "contrapuntal" in the title?
No. I think I can be a good judge of that. The point is...which 19/20th century works to pick??? There are so many. It might be interesting to make the later works fugues or canons - Schumann, Reger, Shostakovich, etc. I'll be happy to contribute a Schumann fugue from Opus 72.
Here's another, even more specialized idea - have a recital featuring only fugues and canons, alternating Bach with Romantic/contemporary composers (as before). Perhaps even feature some pieces from before Bach - Renaissance and Early Baroque stuff. We can call the recital "The Evolution of the Fugue."
I do think that if we use some sort of a theme, it shouldn't be that every piece must fit the theme exactly (we've all been to concerts like that, it's like listening to an encyclopedia!) but that we use the theme to tie the concert together.
Since doctor S gave a long list of repertoire let me use that as an example. The Chopin prelude Op. 28 no. 1 has some very strong contrapuntal characteristics and maybe a resemblance to the first Bach prelude from WTC. But it's odd to only play one of the Op. 28. So perhaps doctor S would choose to play the three selections from Op. 28, which form a nice unit, with no. 1 tying in nicely to an overall contrapuntal theme.
Or if we use alternation then doctor S might contribute a lot of the 19th-early 20th c. portion of the program (Chopin, Rachmaninoff, Debussy).
Or if we use fugues and canons, then maybe we place three massive fugues/canons at the beginning, middle and end of the program, but the other selections are things that would contrast nicely against fugues... like doctor S's Grieg, Rachmaninoff and Scarlatti.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
Heather, of the three options you've provided, I tend to gravitate to the "alternation" idea -- only because this seems to me to be the best natural "fit" for the choices thst the entrants have provided. That is to say, enough people have said that they want to play Bach as a first choice to make the alternation idea "work" easily. So that would be my vote -- but let's see if the others "weigh in".
Don't know about that. I like the idea of works from different periods, but in the same contrapuntal vein, rather than some Bach alternating with unrelated late Romantic things.
There are plenty of fugues and canons from the Romantic era - far more than enough to fill up half a recital.
Just speaking from the periphery ....seems to me it's way better to have the more flexible guideline -- especially for the first go-around and in view of some of the concerns that have been expressed. You want to make it easier for people to participate and to participate comfortably, not harder. (BTW that's why I misunderstood it before. I didn't imagine there was any thought to be as exclusionary or restrictive as that would be.)
Last edited by Mark_C; 06/09/1412:13 PM. Reason: adding "or restrictive," because of Poly's reply (see next post)
I was going to suggest Bach-Busoni Chorale Preludes and a short work by Chopin/Scriabin.
BTW if you felt like making your whole thing a set of Chorale Preludes, or even just plain Bach chorales (!) I think we'd have a huge appetite for that.
More stormbraining: (y'all please comment yea or nay):
I want to play the arrangement by Egon Petri of the Bach Choral Prelude, "I Step Before the Throne, Lord"... (should pass muster as contrapuntal.)
I have a Manuel Ponce "Prelude and Fugue on a Theme by Handel" which is a bit more big chord and bass boomy, a la Busoni, (ergo perhaps not a winner for Poly), but it's by a less known composer who I think could merit some exposure here.
Ponce also has a Prelude and Fugue on a theme by Bach, for the Left Hand, which sounds more contrapuntal (contrapuntal harmony may occur more often in works for the left hand?). Not so big chord/bass boomy, and not as flashy as the Handel (ergo no recordings), but I think it's worth a go.
While googling found a paper: "Brahms’s Choral Music and His Journey to Contrapuntal Transcendence" by a Joseph Schubert.
Very interesting history: Brahms took up a serious study of "early music" with the Schumanns in 1853 and studied counterpoint with the Schumanns and Joseph Joachim, with whom he exchanged weekly counterpoint exercises. Supposedly this influenced his later works, especially choral and chamber music. Mr. Schubert lists piano works between 1854 and 1860 which he feels have more contrapuntal flavor: the 4 ballades, Schumann variations, Piano Concerto No 1, but also says: "The use of counterpoint, particularly canonic writing, can be found in virtually all of Brahms’s instrumental compositions, and was therefore a part of his style from, at the latest, 1851." In this context, he mentions the Eb RHAPSODY (which I play). What say (Poly? ?) is this a tolerable counterpoint/fugue foil?
More brainsturming: Found this: Variationen: “Mein junges Leben hat ein End”, by Jan Pieterszon Sweelinck (1562–1621) and it is very nice. This would be a "before Bach" counterpoint, history of, etc?
Re: Rachmaninoff. He has a (newly published?) Fugue in D minor, and the Bach violin Partita arrangement (wish I could play either but would take months++). My Bb prelude is not very counterpointy, however perhaps the D major prelude # 4 is (two intertwined voices, canonical)??
So I'm thinking Bach-Petri Choral Prelude (which would be enough), maybe Ponce: one of his "Preludes and Fugues" (leaning to the Left Hand), and something late: ie Brahms, Rachmaninoff, or (please please) a Chopin Etude. Would the c# min #4 Etude Wreck the Rectal???
Well, none of those pieces suggested are fugues or canons, except for the fugue parts of the Ponce works, so only those would qualify for my suggestion, but then again we don't have to do this my way.
If we do decide to do it my way, however, I will be happy to assemble a large collection of fugues from all time periods, to pick from at our leisure.
Well, none of those pieces suggested are fugues or canons, except for the fugue parts of the Ponce works, so only those would qualify for my suggestion, but then again we don't have to do this my way.
If we do decide to do it my way, however, I will be happy to assemble a large collection of fugues from all time periods, to pick from at our leisure.
Ooo, can you post that list? Then people can see if anything catches their interest. Whether or not we have 2 full hours of uninterrupted fuguehood and canonization.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
Well, none of those pieces suggested are fugues or canons, except for the fugue parts of the Ponce works, so only those would qualify for my suggestion, but then again we don't have to do this my way.
If we do decide to do it my way, however, I will be happy to assemble a large collection of fugues from all time periods, to pick from at our leisure.
Ooo, can you post that list? Then people can see if anything catches their interest. Whether or not we have 2 full hours of uninterrupted fuguehood and canonization.
Keep in mind this is by no means an exhaustive list, although it did take me 45 minutes to write.
Pre-Bach
Sweelinck Fantasia Contraria Hexachord Fantasia
Buxtehude 3 Fugues, BuxWV 174-176
Bach era
Bach Too many to list. The 48 from the WTC, for starters, and there are dozens, if not hundreds, of miscellaneous organ fugues available in piano transcriptions. Then, there's anything from the Suites - same thing for Handel. Canon-wise, there are the 14 canons on the Goldberg ground - it would be very interesting if someone did that cycle. I could do it myself, if no one else. There are also the selections from the Musical Offering - some canon, some fugue - and of course the Art of Fugue.
Scarlatti G minor fugue, K30
Classical
Mozart C major fugue, K394 G minor fugue, K401
Clementi 3 Fugues, Opus 5
Beethoven We could use the Eroica fugue - not really the Diabelli fugue. I doubt anyone's going to volunteer to play the Hammerklavier fugue. There are also assorted posthumously published fugues in the Hess catalogue.
Romantic
Reicha 36 Fugues, Opus 36
Schumann 4 Fugues, Opus 72 7 Fughettas, Opus 126
Chopin Fugue in A minor
Brahms We could use the fugue from the Handel Variations...I'm pretty sure there are also organ fugues in piano transcription.
Reger Fugue from the Telemann Variations Fugue from the Bach Variations 111 Canons in Two and Three Parts (quite a bit of material there!) Fughetta, Opus 44/8
Now that Tim and doctor S have posted these latest suggestions and armed with these extra ideas from Polyphonist I am also liking the idea of canons/fugues as an anchor for the recital, as long as it doesn't prevent other things from being played as well.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
We could split the recital into two halves, one being all canons and fugues and the other being, perhaps, counterpoint-themed pieces mixed with miscellaneous. Would that make everyone happy?
Well, if you feel like making fugues the theme, I can probably get the one in C minor from WTC I up to a listenable standard :P I remember dropping it, however, because I could never figure out when to bring out the 2nd counter-subject.
If the 4th french suite qualifies as being good counterpoint (it is sometimes canonic as well, think gavotte and gigue. Actually a lot of it is ), I'd be more than happy to work on it. As for the Rach stuff, I think it's a great idea. Lots of times the reason I love Rach is due to the polyphony and inner voices.
Yikes, fugues are the bane of my existence. I've somewhat shot myself in the foot with this one. I typically avoid fugues at any and all possible times.
Oh well, I do have to say that 2 hours of fugues and cannons is a rather ridiculous program in my opinion. Although I'm not opposed to having a program centering around fugues, cannons, and polyphonically rich music, I think great care should be given not to make a program that gives the listeners a musical stomach ache due to the richness.
I wouldn't put it quite so strongly but it seems to me that something so focused and specialized (and it is!) should be reserved for perhaps a later edition of this new feature of the site, after it's been rolling for a while and has established itself and when maybe a bit of "spice" is needed, rather than the inaugural one. But the more modest version of this that was initially discussed -- i.e. contrapuntal works alternating with others -- seems like it could work great on all counts.
Ok, lol, maybe not quite so strong. When one considers the fact that one isn't being subjected to sitting through the entire program at once, then it's feasible. I just can't imagine going to a live recital with such a program.
I do think half a program of fugues and cannons can work in this instance. I do also think that the latter idea you mentioned, Mark, is a far better one.
Chopin: group of pieces (ec) Chopin: Etude Op 10 no 4 (doctor S)
Ponce: prelude and fugue (doctor S)
Gibbons: pavane, allemande, courante (FSO)
Stanchinsky: mazurka and maybe variations (FSO)
Ravel: Prelude and fugue from Tombeau de Couperin (Tim)
Schoenfield: Intermezzi no. 1 and 3 (Tim)
Bach: Contrapunctus no. 1 from Art of Fugue (FSO)
All we know of MikeN so far is that he doesn't want to play a fugue MikeN does anything occur to you? and Vid would you like to play more in addition to the one prelude? (you don't have to of course)
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
Heather, thanks for assembling this! Personally, I like both the repertoire as listed and the order of presentation. I will therefore proceed with polishing the Ravel and Schoenfield for recording next month.
So I see we're not going for anything in particular regarding a contrapuntal theme. In that case, why not just put the recital in chronological order. I don't think the chorale preludes should be first; better to have the French Suite take that position. I will be inserting a Schumann fugue somewhere into the recital as well.
So I see we're not going for anything in particular regarding a contrapuntal theme. In that case, why not just put the recital in chronological order. I don't think the chorale preludes should be first; better to have the French Suite take that position. I will be inserting a Schumann fugue somewhere into the recital as well.
It sure looks like a counterpoint themed recital with several fugues to me! To you, does 'theme' mean 'many pieces that have this characteristic' or 'absolutely no pieces that do not have this characteristic'?
French Suite first is fine.
What would be the rationale behind presenting pieces in historical order?
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
I'm used to programs in historical order mainly because it is the format of the RCM requirements - Baroque, Classical, Romantic, Late Romantic, 'Modern'. Some like to order a program according to keys but I don't know if that's something an audience actually will pick up on.
I could possibly also play a 2 part invention or a straight up Bach Chorale.
When I was a lad, which was about 300 years ago it was pretty usual for the pieces in a program to be more-or-less in chronological order. It seemed to me that this had changed in the last few decades at least to the point that there was no expectation that this would be so; the order seemed to be more on the basis of overall 'flow' or 'emotion' or 'structure'-- in other words, whatever would seem to make musical sense or narrative sense or dramatic sense. In any event, I'm quite sure it doesn't particularly go against anything if your order isn't chronological.
About what Vid said about doing it according to keys: I think that's quite unusual, except to the extent that it's not uncommon to group two pieces together (or maybe a few, but usually two) according to their keys.
BTW, FWIW, here's what was the order in my first recital, which was 42 years ago (and, need I say I wasn't any kind of pace-setter):
I'm quite grateful to join in the Bach 'n all a 'ya celebration, even if we do not ascend higher than the foot of the fugal mountain. I hope we get a full 15+++ (or 115!) minutes of Polyphonist though (is this his first PW recital?) Chorales, Bach's and Polyphonist's, a Polyphonist Fugue (?), the Polyphonist BWV 553 organ-piano transcription , Schumann, (Chopin??, Rachmaninoff??) I would rather hear 30min of Poly than 1min of me. I vote for at least a 2-slot Special Dispensation.
Yes, I'll kindly add Chopin's Op.45 prelude, Godowsky's op.10 no.6 and Hamelin's Prelude and Fugue if you can fit them. I know we already have quite a bit of Chopin.
Yes, I'll kindly add Chopin's Op.45 prelude, Godowsky's op.10 no.6 and Hamelin's Prelude and Fugue if you can fit them. I know we already have quite a bit of Chopin.
We do, but that one etude looked so lonely out there by itself now it will have company.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
Aaah can I "perhaps" participate? I want to add this piece, but I have to polish the Ravel sonatine for a masterclass in the "near future"( actual words from this teacher, I don't know exactly when it'll be ). But maybe you guys can give me your opinion if the piece 'fits', otherwise I don't even bother trying to finish it in time and just focus on the Ravel and my other repertoire. It's a brazilian piece, very polyphonic. Full of inner voices. It's a Ponteio (prelude) by a brazilian composer, Mozart Guarnieri.
I don't really like this recording, but it's the only one on youtube.
Last edited by Francisco Scalco; 06/11/1409:37 PM.
Hi Francisco, This particular program is full now, but you could always post in the Member Recording section and get some good feedback. Assuming all goes well with this recital I plan to host another in September and you'd be more than welcome then. I look forward to hearing you play!
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
Hey, would you be so kind as to substitute the Hamelin prelude and fugue for the Op. 8 No.2 and 12 Scriabin Etudes. I decided I didn't want to torture myself for a month and a half to torture listeners with an inevitably inadequate performance.
Vid I'm sure it will be a lot of fun :P After learning the one in F major, I still play it once a day, trying to change dynamics and phrasing. It's unbelievable how many combinations you can get, and it really forces you to keep trying! But still, I'm never completely satisfied with any one version. I think every time these are performed, there is a sort of improvisatory feel, at least for me :P Have fun with them
An updated possible program order. Also, if you have any "maybe" or "TBD" left in your entries, it's time to come to a decision.
Fugal/contrapuntal music is the frame and thread running through the recital. Pieces have been grouped together so that there will be a few different episodes in the recital. (If I messed up anyone's repertoire please let me know.)
------------------------------- [Dance group] Bach: French Suite no. 4 (Pover) Gibbons: pavane, allemande, courante (FSO) Stanchinsky: mazurka and maybe variations (FSO)
[Chopin group, leading with pieces that have 'hidden' counterpoint in the accompaniment] Chopin: Prelude Op. 45 (MikeN) Chopin: Nocturne Op 62 no 2 (ec) Chopin: Mazurka Op 41 no 1 (ec) Chopin: Etude Op 10 no 4 (doctor S) Chopin/Godowsky: Etude Op 10 no 6 (MikeN)
[Late Romantic/early 20th c. music that looks back on earlier styles] Ravel: Prelude and fugue from Tombeau de Couperin (Tim) Ponce: prelude and fugue (doctor S) Rachmaninoff: Prelude Op 23 no 5 (Vid) Schumann: a fugue TBD (Polyphonist) Scriabin: Etudes Op 8 no. 2 and 12 (MikeN)
[And returning home to Bach] Bach: Two-part inventions no. 1 and 2 (Vid) Bach: Contrapunctus no. 1 from Art of Fugue (FSO) --------------------------------------------------
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
Hi, Heather -- just a quick note to say that I very much like your choice of groupings and order of presentation. The Schoenfield Intermezzi are indeed introspective and meditative, and the Ravel is of course a modern evocation of the 17th century piano suites. Thanks for the update; will send recordings to you via PM, probably by the 21st.
I'm at a piano camp, and will be trying to put together a decent recording today/tomorrow. I PMd Heather about this but haven't heard back yet--does anyone know whether an iPad video recording will work???
ec Long Beach, CA *********************
Chopin - Nocturnes, Op. 62 Chopin, Fantaisie, Op. 49 Mozart - Fantasia, Op. 475; Sonata, C minor, K. 457 Bach -Toccata, D Major
Well really, who would object to Reger Hearing no objections sounds like Reger is just fine. I can receive just about any file format, but it does need to be a downloadable file (not youtube or other streaming format). I will then combine the files and upload to soundcloud.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
Reger it is, then. I'll be recording tomorrow, and in the unlikely event that the four chorale preludes plus the Reger does not equal 15 minutes, I will add another little something into the mix.
Soundcloud will work. The download button is something you as the uploader have to enable. I don't think it's on by default.
Polyphonist, are you volunteering to convert youtube to mp3? hats off, if so.
Submissions can be pm'd to me. Or there is a gmail that I created in order to make the soundcloud account, pwconcertprogram@gmail.com. You can email files there.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
I've received recordings from Vid and Polyphonist.
We still need recordings from Pover, FSO, MikeN and ec. I don't mind if people take a few more hours to get them to me, but I am planning to put the concert together tonight, and I really hope to have all the materials by then.
Last edited by hreichgott; 07/24/1401:21 PM.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
In every recital, there will be a hit-and-run poster like this one who claims space in the recital and then weasels out at the last minute. And half of the participants are now eight hours late in submitting recordings for a recital in which they had two months to prepare. Disappointing.
I'm surprised that you seem to think the last-minute dropouts acceptable; also, you are under no obligation to delay the recital due to late submissions. Compile it tonight, and whoever has missed the deadline will need to post their performances separately.
In every recital, there will be a hit-and-run poster like this one who claims space in the recital and then weasels out at the last minute. And half of the participants are now eight hours late in submitting recordings for a recital in which they had two months to prepare. Disappointing.
C'mon, have a heart!
Look: They hoped, and they tried. You want people not to hope, or try? Not everybody can necessarily learn or play like you do!!
In every recital, there will be a hit-and-run poster like this one who claims space in the recital and then weasels out at the last minute. And half of the participants are now eight hours late in submitting recordings for a recital in which they had two months to prepare. Disappointing.
C'mon, have a heart!
Look: They hoped, and they tried. You want people not to hope, or try? Not everybody can necessarily learn or play like you do!!
They should know what they can do, and be sure that they will be able to meet any deadline which they have committed to meet. To enter a recital like this on a whim and then back out is an immature thing to do, and rude to the organizer of the recital.
I'm surprised that you seem to think the last-minute dropouts acceptable
Well it's not like I can come over to their houses and demand that they play the piano And life happens, and this isn't a paid gig or anything; it is a for-fun project. We don't always know the reasons for everything nor can we blame people. who would have thought ec wouldn't be able to get to a piano today? and Pover lives in Jordan which is near two civil wars at the moment?
It's disappointing for sure, and I feel badly for those who didn't get to play because a spot was taken by someone who then ended up not playing at the last minute. I hope that next time performers will be more realistic about what they can play and record in the time available. Especially since there was so much choice in what to perform.
Last edited by hreichgott; 07/24/1411:10 PM.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
(Uh, the program order might have to be changed a teeny bit to allow for the missing pieces. I'm looking at possibly leading off with the Inventions so as to still have Bach at the beginning.)
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
I'm surprised that you seem to think the last-minute dropouts acceptable; also, you are under no obligation to delay the recital due to late submissions. Compile it tonight, and whoever has missed the deadline will need to post their performances separately.
I assume you expect for the highest penalty to be give which is...exactly what now? Really, what exactly can be done to one who is volunteering their time and energy to learn music who suddenly decides to withdraw to avoid substandard results, and the lowering of the overall standard of the recital.
....It's disappointing for sure, and I feel badly for those who didn't get to play because a spot was taken by someone who then ended up not playing at the last minute. I hope that next time performers will be more realistic about what they can play and record in the time available. Especially since there was so much choice in what to perform.
Heather, I think even that sounds too severe. (Not as bad as Poly's stuff though.)
I would beware of putting out any vibes that would make people fearful about coming into these things -- especially since you're just getting the thing established. I'm sure that everyone who volunteered really had thought about it pretty seriously and had serious intentions -- but y'know, sometimes we just misjudge, and sometimes stuff happens. I'd encourage you (and Poly, and everyone) to go easy on it. The disappointment and inconvenience of a couple of withdrawals is nothing compared to the goodness of just having these things, and I think the harsh and judgmental stuff could jeopardize it. You've done great in putting this thing out there and getting it together like you did. It doesn't have to be exactly as planned in order to be great.
I'm looking forward to listening to what's offered.
The Internet is a big place. Life is messy. Therefore, the Internet is a big, messy place. That's a syllogism, right?
I think it is worth noting that e-citals are still a fairly "new" thing in Pianist Corner. Anyone care to count how many Pianist Corner e-citals there have been so far? (Hint: not many.) And, as MarkC just said about vibes, I think it is also worth noting that the Pianist Corner vibe is often not very welcoming; rather, it is often contentious. Why is that, do you suppose? So, I would re-iterate that the least restrictive environment is a good place to start when planning and soliciting participation, and if one needs to control the show, go solo in Member's Recordings and/or WordPress. I'm sure all who offered to participate did so with the best of intentions and high hopes for their performances. Sometimes, things just don't turn out, though, and the artist should always be in control of the release of his/her art. Naive sentiment, huh?
I have often wondered why Pianist Corner is such an intimidating place. I mean, personally, I'm not intimidated by it, but I know a lot of people who are, or who are turned off by the vibe. It's kind of sad. Just sayin'.
Heather, I'd encourage you to take your time in working with what you have to make something of the vision with which you started. I'm sure you'll make a fine presentation of it!
I am very very very sorry for not being able to participate! Everything was going according to plan, but then an unexpected trip came along. I had to visit a couple of places (outside the country) in order to get in touch with the hospital leading staff because I will have to work in hospitals in 3 years. So I had to go to different countries and either volunteer there or go to the hospital's associated university there.
I am EXTREMELY sorry for messing this up and not being here on time, but I just returned yesterday night and didn't have time to actually finish up I'm very sorry and hopefully I won't let anyone down next time.
Poly, I understand your frustration, and you have the right to be, to be honest. But I hope that you and others will not get an impression of me from this experience, as hard as that may be. Heather and others, thanks for being considerate and compassionate. Hopefully next time I'll have things ready much in advance in case something like this happens.
Pover -- I'm sure they'll appreciate what you've said, but I feel bad for you that you feel so bad about it. I would hope that people will feel free to volunteer for these recitals without having to worry about feeling so terribly guilty if it doesn't work out as planned.
I am very very very sorry for not being able to participate! Everything was going according to plan, but then an unexpected trip came along. I had to visit a couple of places (outside the country) in order to get in touch with the hospital leading staff because I will have to work in hospitals in 3 years. So I had to go to different countries and either volunteer there or go to the hospital's associated university there.
I am EXTREMELY sorry for messing this up and not being here on time, but I just returned yesterday night and didn't have time to actually finish up I'm very sorry and hopefully I won't let anyone down next time.
Poly, I understand your frustration, and you have the right to be, to be honest. But I hope that you and others will not get an impression of me from this experience, as hard as that may be. Heather and others, thanks for being considerate and compassionate. Hopefully next time I'll have things ready much in advance in case something like this happens.
Again, I'm sorry, please accept this apology
Hi Pover, glad you are well and just busy. I still hope to hear you play that suite, maybe would you consider submitting it to member recordings?
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
....It's disappointing for sure, and I feel badly for those who didn't get to play because a spot was taken by someone who then ended up not playing at the last minute. I hope that next time performers will be more realistic about what they can play and record in the time available. Especially since there was so much choice in what to perform.
Heather, I think even that sounds too severe. (Not as bad as Poly's stuff though.)
I would beware of putting out any vibes that would make people fearful about coming into these things -- especially since you're just getting the thing established. I'm sure that everyone who volunteered really had thought about it pretty seriously and had serious intentions -- but y'know, sometimes we just misjudge, and sometimes stuff happens. I'd encourage you (and Poly, and everyone) to go easy on it. The disappointment and inconvenience of a couple of withdrawals is nothing compared to the goodness of just having these things, and I think the harsh and judgmental stuff could jeopardize it. You've done great in putting this thing out there and getting it together like you did. It doesn't have to be exactly as planned in order to be great.
That's fair. I was a bit frustrated at the time. And I think Polyphonist may have thought we were only going to have 50% participation (since only 50% of the people had recordings in by the posted deadline).
It's shaping up to be a good program, just over an hour, which is still not too shabby for a hobby project! The overall feel is pretty mellow, with a couple of high energy pieces spicing things up, and the counterpoint focus does work well. There is some really beautiful playing too, both of complex and of simple pieces.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
I'm listening to the program straight through right now. Marvelous work, everyone. This is a treat. Barring any technical difficulties with soundcloud, it will be posted in an hour and 20 minutes
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
Morning, Heather! I'm looking forward to hearing this program later today, and your revisions in presentation. I thought you had a perfect right to your frustration, briefly put. But then, Pover's post reminds me that there can be situations that simply override the personal commitments that one had made -- as MarkC had cautioned. In general terms, I think the "e-cital" is a good idea, and I for one would hate to see it jettisoned by capricious last-minute withdrawals -- particularly so, when a couple of other pianists willing to participate were told to wait for the next event. Polyphonist's comments may have been harsh, but they were IMO spot-on accurate.
Morning, Heather! I'm looking forward to hearing this program later today, and your revisions in presentation. I thought you had a perfect right to your frustration, briefly put. But then, Pover's post reminds me that there can be situations that simply override the personal commitments that one had made -- as MarkC had cautioned. In general terms, I think the "e-cital" is a good idea, and I for one would hate to see it jettisoned by capricious last-minute withdrawals -- particularly so, when a couple of other pianists willing to participate were told to wait for the next event. Polyphonist's comments may have been harsh, but they were IMO spot-on accurate.
I don't remember why participation was limited in the e-cital... (gonna have to trace that back through the thread in a minute...) I have an intuitive understanding that it was part of "the challenge." But I think *every* e-cital we've had on Pianist Corner (and there have not been many, yet) has had one or more withdrawals at or close to deadline. Life is just too messy, and I'm saying that you can pretty much count on someone needing to bail out at the last minute for *what-ever* reason, especially when the glue that holds this community together is rather weak. There are priorities, and then, there are priorities.
*IF* participation is to be limited, perhaps there are those who don't make the cut who would be willing to serve as "alternates," or "understudy." But then, there's the vibe thing...
Cinnamonbear, the reason for limiting participants was so that the program would not become too long. The distinctive feature of this particular recital was to create a performance that could be enjoyed at one go, with its own dramatic arc, as a single experience. Of course not everyone will listen that way, but that was the idea. So it is kind to the audience to have a maximum time. We capped the time at 2 hours max (8 performers at 15 minutes per performer.) We ended up with just over 1 hour which is still a satisfying performance.
Our upcoming suites recital is more like a multi-night concert marathon Also great, of course, just a different format and different listening experience.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
Why not "overbook" the way airlines and hotels do? Damon points out that all of the e-citals here have had dropouts. If you were to overbook by, say, 25%, you would end up closer to a full recital. Better yet, look at the 8 e-citals and calculate the average dropout rate and use that to determine how much to overbook. The worst thing that could happen would be to end up with a slightly long recital.
Why not "overbook" the way airlines and hotels do? Damon points out that all of the e-citals here have had dropouts. If you were to overbook by, say, 25%, you would end up closer to a full recital. Better yet, look at the 8 e-citals and calculate the average dropout rate and use that to determine how much to overbook. The worst thing that could happen would be to end up with a slightly long recital.
Yes. Main thing, as with just about everything: Never expect perfection. Never necessarily expect things to go exactly as planned, because they probably won't. And there's nothing wrong with looking at the length of these recitals as a range rather than a specific number. If it winds up being 10% longer or shorter than exactly what was aimed for, no big problem. In fact, I'd say no problem at all. When I plan my own recitals, I'm usually aware that they could well tolerate an additional piece or two. (And of course that nobody would mind if I omitted a piece or two.)
The closest thing to a real problem that I can see would be if the whole program were built around one major piece, and that person dropped out or changed his program to something else. But even in a case like that, it seems like the program would still be fine -- just different.
Hear, hear! Yes, overbook. And regarding the difficulty of attaining perfection, agree again. That last 40% is really tough. (I can think of a piece or two of mine to leave out...)
Why not "overbook" the way airlines and hotels do? Damon points out that all of the e-citals here have had dropouts. If you were to overbook by, say, 25%, you would end up closer to a full recital. Better yet, look at the 8 e-citals and calculate the average dropout rate and use that to determine how much to overbook. The worst thing that could happen would be to end up with a slightly long recital.
That's a good idea. If there is interest in doing this again, maybe we should have 10 participants (or more if two people want to share a slot).
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
....that to whatever extent she is left feeling that something is missing, she herself will play something different than exactly what she had planned, or that she might reach out to someone extra to play some additional piece. Stuff like that.
), Gibbons's pavan/pavane/paevan of Lord/Lorde Salisbury/Salysbree etc. The Allemande from his grounds and perhaps one of his French Courante's to make up the time, if it's necessary...but...um...I'm not locked into playing those pieces, I'd just like them 
Just sayin'.