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My 6 yrs old daughter has started her piano class and the tutor insists we buy a digital piano for her.she suggested one with 88 keys. since iam zero with musical instruments, i would need some suggestions and recommendations. I saw casio cdp220 for $400 and casio privia px-15 for $550. and there is yamaha p35 for $500. what would you suggest? do a starter really need 88 keys? how about a piano with 61 keys?

thanks in advance for your time

You should post this in the digital pianos forum. But first browse the thread about Digital Pianos under $1000.

IMHO you should start with 88 keys. 'Need' 88 is a different question. The CDP220 and PX150 are decent for the price. I would not recommend the P35. There are others, better, more functions, what is the budget. Maybe the tutor can help? Another option is rental, piano or digital.

I guess if I were the parent of a 6 yr old starting piano I would be wary of spending too much on a piano. The child may give up or even decide to change instruments down the track.

There is a thread right now over on the digital piano forum on this subject but like spanishbuddha I would not recommend the Yamaha P35 (I have the P105 and am quite happy with that).

Here is a link to some reading on the matter.

It all depends on the child, but 61-key will not last 1 year if the child makes any progress. If the child quits in 6 months, it is fine. Need 88 keys as soon as possible otherwise. The P35 is better than 61 or 76 keys, but not a good long term tool. P105 is OK for 2 to 3 years for average child. Longer term, P155 or better.

Always consider upgrading to acoustic as possibility but keep in mind a digital is easily as good as an acoustic piano 3 times its price. So a $1000 digital should be at least as good as a $3000 acoustic piano, or a $1500 acoustic piano is likely not as good as a $700 digital piano. (guideline doesn't seem to work as prices go up. $4000 digital isn't necessarily better than a $12000 acoustic.)

Of the pianos you mention:

. . . If you can afford the Casio PX-150, buy it.

Within that price range, it's more "piano-like" in its action (the physical keyboard mechanism) than anything else.

The problem with 61-key keyboards is that most of them _don't_ have "weighted keys". "Weighted keys" is what acoustic pianos have. If your daughter has a non-weighted keyboard ("synth action") at home, she will have a lot of adjusting to do when she takes a lesson on an acoustic piano, or a digital piano with a weighted keyboard.

The difference is obvious to someone who plays piano. I don't know if it will be obvious to you.

. Charles

PS -- bias -- I own a PX-350, which is a fancy version of the PX-150.

Are there any 61 key weighted keyboards? I know there are a few 76 key ones.

The main reason to get weighted keys, even for a child just starting out, is that it will help her with finger independence. So I'd be more concerned about feel than sound quality. Maybe you can find something used just until you see if she will be dedicated to it. I understand the problem. At that age, they change their mind so dramatically.

Most keyboards with less than 88 keys have a spring action. They aren't really weighted so much as have some resistance, but it is nothing like an acoustic piano. With 88 keys, at least, you know the manufacturer is trying to mimic the feel of an acoustic.

Here are a couple of things to consider about purchasing a piano (sorry this is kind of long). When I was young, I begged my parents to let me play piano. My older sister was taking lessons at the time and so they thought I just wanted to do it because she was doing it. I kept begging, though, so they said OK, but I had to promise to stick with piano for at least 10 years. I was 5 at the time, and had no idea what 10 years meant, but it was a good promise to make because they knew piano would take that long to be something to last my lifetime.

While I don't suggest necessarily your daughter agree to 10 years, perhaps if you are making a $500 purchase, you first have her agree to a certain amount of time taking lessons that you feel would be suitable to justify spending that dollar amount. A return on your investment, if you will. I think it's important that she understand she just can't stop piano at the first sign of difficulty if you are to invest in an instrument and lessons.

If you are worried, however, then perhaps renting is the best option. Many piano stores will give you a rental digital piano for a monthly fee of around $40. After 6 months, you can use your rent payments as a downpayment towards a new instrument with them - digital or acoustic, or you can continue renting (not recommended), or discontinue renting. You may even be able to discontinue the rental prior to 6 months being over, I think, but not sure.

I give new students an 8-lesson trial period. This is about 2 months and gives them enough time to settle into piano study. After the 8 lessons we decide if we isn to continue or not. I can count on one hand the number of piano students that didn't want to continue in my 15 years of teaching, and I believe all of them were adult students. So if that's any assurance, if you support her in her studies, she will continue the lessons and get the most out of your piano purchase.

I love the Yamaha P155 I bought last April. Looks like the P255 is out as the new version. I recently got the MoXF6 to use when I traveled. I love the light weight, the extra sounds, and the--okay, I confess--looks with the MoXF6, and the chance to "play around", but I was very happy to come back to my P155 and the piano feel.

I purchased it at Guitar Center and was pretty ecstatic to get a great deal at the time brand new. The price I paid is still less than what companies are selling it now.

Every now and then my piano teacher comes over and she LOVES my Yamaha. She wants to hold an adults-only recital at my house.

Sorry for the thread drift, but I have to ask:

. . . Did they start with unrealistic expectations about
. . . how long it would take, and how much time it would
. . . take, to "learn piano" ?

Thanks --

. Charles

To be fair though, no 2 acoustics have the same feel. I've had to play some pretty crappy acoustics that had some resistance at best. I've also played some pianos (mostly grands) where the touch was so heavy it made playing soft nearly impossible, even with the pedal. So it's not always an acoustic vs. digital argument.

That's not the point of my post. Digital pianos are trying to mimic a GOOD acoustic, not a crappy unregulated one. A "keyboard" or "synth" may or may not be trying to mimic a good acoustic piano action. When you get to 88 keys the chances are better you will get a better acoustic (non-synth) action, but not 100% always.

Yes, they were all adults because of that contract you make them sign in blood to not quit your studio for 10 years. Like you said, children do not know how long that is.

LOL! No, adults just don't have someone in their corner at home every day encouraging them (or making them if need be) practice. Not everyone is self-motivated.

That sounds about right.

I'm on a lesson-every-two-weeks schedule with my teacher (who has mostly adult students). She said:

. . . "I usually don't encourage that. A lot of people don't make
. . . any progress, and quit. But you _do_ practice between lessons."

I'm just getting good enough to enjoy my own playing, thank God!

. Charles

Digitals can have a heavy touch too. The VPC1 is a good example. I practice on all types of pianos in the college practice rooms, including some good grands, and none of them have as heavy a touch as it does.

It`s funny, but music teachers usually will not recommend digital pianos. Yet some of the pianos I`ve had to play at their hands when I was a kid were horrors. Heavy action, short throw, muffled tone, totally unlike what I was used to at home. . .

I see no advantage in a heavy action. There can be many health hazards awaiting in the future on account of this imo. And it would seem Steinway agree wi me . . .maybe light but with key inertia is preferable rather than just heavy hammer resistance like you might find on some digitals . . .

Yes, most of them thought they could learn it very quickly, despite me telling them in the interview what was realistic. Some of them it was more a matter of not being able to set aside the 15-20 minutes per day/4-5 days per week I had recommended for practice.

You want an 88-key keyboard with weighted keys and grand piano sound.

In the $600 range, you should consider the Yamaha P105. Very nice for the price and it will serve your daughter well for the first two (possibly more) years of her piano journey.

Go to a Guitar Center and try one (or a comparable) out.

There are lots of comparable digital pianos. The P-155, mentioned above, is quite a lot nicer than the P-105. It's around $1000.

Good luck

I was thinking the exact same thing after my post. Last year I took singing lesson with someone who had a Yamaha Cabinet Grand knock-off from China. Man was that thing stiff and heavy. She was a terrible accompanist and I wondered if it had something to do with the fact that this thing was so hard to play. When I accompanied my vocals at her house recitals, I always brought my portable digital with stand. And I noticed her piano students never played without a million mistakes, even when they said they did it perfectly at home. I felt so sorry for her little kids, when I couldn't even play this thing without getting a sore arm.



Do you think the VPC1 is an example of the latter or the former?

That was kind of my point. Digital or acoustic can both be good or bad. Just know what you're getting into. Best to put your hands on it before purchasing. Especially for a young kid, you want some weight to it, but maybe not such a heavy action.

By the way, I've never played a digital that had too heavy of an action. But acoustics... plenty. So for someone with zero knowledge (as the OP claims to have), there's a lot less concern and set up to go with a decent digital. Plus, the cost can be kept reasonable until you're sure she will want to continue.