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#2290912 - 06/17/14 08:04 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Judicious cutting out of features is OK. If you didn't do that, professional keyboards would still come with a floppy disc drive - even cassette tape interface for downloads and uploads. Now you don't see those too often these days, not even on most Clavinovas.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

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#2290924 - 06/17/14 08:25 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Thats ok - I get OT on my own threads. eek

But what you say can be said for Yamaha as well. A few features were hand picked or left out from the CP5 going to the CP4.
Agreed but Yamaha has created a new line (the CP1/5 are not called "stage.") The RD-800 is a continued line, like the FP4f, which both of those lines had nice features removed.


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2290928 - 06/17/14 08:34 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251
Agreed but Yamaha has created a new line (the CP1/5 are not called "stage.").


The previous generation CP1/CP5/CP50 models were undeniably stage pianos.
The CP4/CP40 is a continuation of the existing line.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
#2290932 - 06/17/14 08:39 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251
Agreed but Yamaha has created a new line (the CP1/5 are not called "stage.")


I think EssBrace said it best...

Originally Posted by EssBrace
Then it's all dressed up in marketing hyperbole to generate demand. It's not the product or the technology creating the demand, it's the advertising language.


KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
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#2290940 - 06/17/14 08:43 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Kawai James]  
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by 36251
Agreed but Yamaha has created a new line (the CP1/5 are not called "stage.").


The previous generation CP1/CP5/CP50 models were undeniably stage pianos.
The CP4/CP40 is a continuation of the this line.
Sure but when you search on their website they split it using the word "Stage." Sure this might be a marketing ploy but anyone can see they abandoned the architecture and redesigned.

Kawai adds features and continues product lines. I commend them for that and enjoy that you keep the "spins" to a very minimum, unlike other reps on this site.


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2290949 - 06/17/14 09:00 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251

Sure this might be a marketing ploy but anyone can see they abandoned the architecture and redesigned.


Well, in that theory, So did the RD800, MP7, MP10. All have new designs and engines.

Yamaha just added the word "STAGE". But It's still a CP series

Last edited by Marko in Boston; 06/17/14 09:02 AM.

KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2290957 - 06/17/14 09:15 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Originally Posted by 36251

Sure this might be a marketing ploy but anyone can see they abandoned the architecture and redesigned.


Well, in that theory, So did the RD800, MP7, MP10. All have new designs and engines.

Yamaha just added the word "STAGE". But It's still a CP series
Hey, I'm no cheer leader for Yamaha, so you'all are right and I'm wrong. I don't start these issues but when I read the reasons why Roland took something out, it infuriates me how people can spin anything!!!!


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2290964 - 06/17/14 09:26 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251
The RD-800 is a continued line, like the FP4f, which both of those lines had nice features removed.

Except for the added SN, FP4 => FP4F was an evisceration.

Someone in Roland had the brainwave of re-imagining the internal architecture for this DP line which killed a lot of what was good in there. Not sure why they drew a line at the RD-700NX but I'm glad they did. The NX got the "live set" nonsense but MIDIing into it is a snap, unlike the FP4F and FP7F and others, where you have to be a MIDI Einstein and spend huge amounts of quality time experimenting and reading between the lines of the manual. Several here have tried, only one or perhaps two have succeeded in cracking the FP7F MIDI nut. Perhaps SW platform inheritance is why MIDI file playback was removed from the RD800? If so, it's a bad sign.

#2290975 - 06/17/14 09:37 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: dewster]  
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by 36251
The RD-800 is a continued line, like the FP4f, which both of those lines had nice features removed.

Except for the added SN, FP4 => FP4F was an evisceration.

Someone in Roland had the brainwave of re-imagining the internal architecture for this DP line which killed a lot of what was good in there. Not sure why they drew a line at the RD-700NX but I'm glad they did. The NX got the "live set" nonsense but MIDIing into it is a snap, unlike the FP4F and FP7F and others, where you have to be a MIDI Einstein and spend huge amounts of quality time experimenting and reading between the lines of the manual. Several here have tried, only one or perhaps two have succeeded in cracking the FP7F MIDI nut. Perhaps SW platform inheritance is why MIDI file playback was removed from the RD800? If so, it's a bad sign.
I always appreciate your input and logic, thank you.


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2291225 - 06/17/14 05:08 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Originally Posted by EssBrace
But there's no way the RD-800 is the greatest, not even close. What Roland and the others keep doing is repackaging the same old thing, over and over again with tiny incremental tweaks.


Well, if Roland keeps repackaging the the same old thing (RD1000) with tiny incremental tweaks. Then wouldn't the RD800 be at least equal to the greatest stage piano Roland has ever built?


Not really. The RD-1000 is not the thing they have repackaged in the RD line. It was a completely different technology which is fully modelled. From RD-500 onwards (1994) they have basically followed the same (sample-based) path with the RD series. The RD-1000 ultimately gave birth to V-Piano many years later after a total break in Roland's development of modelled acoustic piano sounds. Roland returned to the technology and developed it for a further ten years (initially on other instrument sounds and drums) before the launch of V-Piano.

#2291229 - 06/17/14 05:15 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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I think you'd actually be surprised how much of the current supernatural engine actually is Modelling vs. PCM. It surprised the heck out of me.


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2291321 - 06/17/14 08:21 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: JayGVan]  
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Jay, I recently picked up the RD800. Can you confirm which of the sounds is supposed to be the "Studio Grand" sound from the NX? I'm getting confused by this. Regards. G.

#2291354 - 06/17/14 09:23 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Patch number 034. It's the Studio Grand. Not my favourite but useful for many situations. There's a few variations on that tone.

Here's the tone list for download if you need it:

http://www.roland.com/support/article/?q=manuals&p=RD-800&id=63073815

Last edited by Jay Roland; 06/17/14 09:24 PM.

Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2291408 - 06/17/14 11:57 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Do the alternate piano patches have as many layers as the primary piano? I just got the FP-50, and there are not many pianos to chose from, so I would like to know if one uses one of the high number piano sounds, or for me, pianos in the 'Other' bank, if they are as good in quality of implementation and have the extras like string resonance?

Hope this is a general enough question that I am not redirecting this thread, Cynthia


Cynthia

Roland FP-50
Conover Upright, 1888/9, but a very low mileage piano. http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/conover_upright_piano__1888_or_9 .
Tuneless = Don't play piano yet but getting there.
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#2291419 - 06/18/14 12:20 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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On the RD800 there are 33 total Supernatural Acoustic pianos on board. All based on an 88 key 4 level multi sample, with Modelling filling in the gaps for 128 total levels of expression. There are 3 total variations of the SuperNatural Acoustic Pianos on the FP-50.

SuperNatural Acoustic Pianos are the patches with the most tonal variation, The higher number (generally GM2 and PCM based patches) don't have the tonal variation that the SuperNatural instruments have.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2291922 - 06/19/14 03:02 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: JayGVan]  
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland
On the RD800 there are 33 total Supernatural Acoustic pianos on board. All based on an 88 key 4 level multi sample, with Modelling filling in the gaps for 128 total levels of expression.
Jay

I had no idea that the SuperNATURAL Acoustic Pianos were sample based, with modelling filling in the velocity level gaps, I thought they were entirely modelled based on the sample. shocked


Roland RD-800, RD-700, SRX-02, SRX-04, SRX-07, SRX-11, EV-5
#2292049 - 06/19/14 10:15 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Hi there.

This thread is a really good idea.
I'm looking for tips to the RD-800.

Here is my question:
The RD-800 Upright piano has a too little sustain for my opinion.
What can I do to last the tones longer to get a more realistic Upright sound?

Thanks
Martin

#2292051 - 06/19/14 10:31 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Maltin]  
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Originally Posted by Maltin
Hi there.

This thread is a really good idea.
I'm looking for tips to the RD-800.

Here is my question:
The RD-800 Upright piano has a too little sustain for my opinion.
What can I do to last the tones longer to get a more realistic Upright sound?

Thanks
Martin



Hi Martin and welcome!

Im not in front of my RD800 at the moment but try this:

- go to Upright Piano
- Enter
- go to Sympathetic Resonance
- go to Depth
- Default will be around 52 crank it all the way to 127 and play something. then dial it down to a number you like.

Also, turn on Modulation FX and tool around with the pitch shifter a bit. It just might sound like a realistic upright when slightly off pitch +/-2cent.

Im sure there are many other tweaks, but try that for starters. I will look into it more tonight.

Marko




Last edited by Marko in Boston; 06/19/14 10:35 AM.

KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2292062 - 06/19/14 10:50 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: bgiles]  
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Originally Posted by bgiles
Originally Posted by Jay Roland
On the RD800 there are 33 total Supernatural Acoustic pianos on board. All based on an 88 key 4 level multi sample, with Modelling filling in the gaps for 128 total levels of expression.
Jay

I had no idea that the SuperNATURAL Acoustic Pianos were sample based, with modelling filling in the velocity level gaps, I thought they were entirely modelled based on the sample. shocked


It was a total oversimplification of what the modelling tech actually does, but at it's core yes that's what SuperNatural does. Also, all the resonances (String, Hammer, Key-Off, Duplex Scale, etc etc etc.) are also controlled and changed dynamically by SuperNatural. There's more, but I hope this clears it up a bit.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2292101 - 06/19/14 12:13 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: JayGVan]  
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Thanks Jay, there's obviously a lot going on under the hood!

Been fiddling since February to get the perfect Piano, as I found the default settings for 'Concert Grand' just a little to mellow.
Tried changing the character (which is what 'Bright Concert' does at +2), but found it a little too hard.

Then opened the lid (Menu > Tremolo/Amp Simulator) from 5 to 7, and wow, so much more 'open' in the mid range.

I wonder if 7 equates opening the lid fully on a concert grand, or actually removing it?

My default pianos in the live sets are now;
'Concert Grand' with lid at 7, and
'NX Concert Grand' with lid at 7.


Roland RD-800, RD-700, SRX-02, SRX-04, SRX-07, SRX-11, EV-5
#2292105 - 06/19/14 12:17 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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On the home series that had graphics corresponding with the lid adjustment. 7 was in fact pictured as off.

Whether or not that meant off, not sure. but yeah the sound opened up greatly.

I like a darker mellower tone so I usually hover around 3 or 4.

I'll post some patches on the Roland Canada Blog soon with some Grand, Upright and E. Piano customizations. When i do so, I will make sure to share here. I have to get a road trip in Alberta out of the way first though.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2295036 - 06/25/14 08:35 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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I would absolutely love it, if customizations could be posted to this thread. There seems to be so many ways the RDs can be voiced. And so many different *nuance types* etc... not to mention the EPs and Organs. But I remember once getting a pretty involved customization to an EP on the RD700GX - that was so much better than the stock selections. So please Jay, if you hear some compelling mods - please post them!! smile

#2295386 - 06/26/14 03:14 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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I do like my RD-800, but the more I use it, the more I get the feeling that 'System Programming' wasn't fully developed before release...

When selecting an E.ORGAN from 'Tone' bank 5, with the exception of the 10 'Tone Wheel Organs' (255-264), all the remaining (265-322) have the 'Tremolo/Amp Simulator' setting on '[1] Normal' instead of '[5] Rotary' and ON.

This means that you have to change the setting to get to what should be the default, and then save it off to a 'Live Set', which I think is crazy!




Roland RD-800, RD-700, SRX-02, SRX-04, SRX-07, SRX-11, EV-5
#2295426 - 06/26/14 04:38 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: GWILLY]  
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Originally Posted by GWILLY
There seems to be so many ways the RDs can be voiced. And so many different *nuance types* etc... not to mention the EPs and Organs.


Speaking of organs, I rarely use organs but RD800 has been inspiring me! I must say the the RD800 organs (SN and non-SN) sound pretty incredible. I was just playing something easy and popular from the Animals, so popular that the RD800 already has preset for it: #282 "Rising Son" I love making it a little just a bit gritty with Amp Sim drive. Also, just started messing around with A Whiter Shade of Pale. I would really love to try something like Greg Allmans's slow version of Whipping Post with my band. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-B9ijxkhaA



KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2295559 - 06/26/14 09:24 PM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: 36251]  
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Originally Posted by 36251
Originally Posted by Marko in Boston
Originally Posted by 36251

Sure this might be a marketing ploy but anyone can see they abandoned the architecture and redesigned.


Well, in that theory, So did the RD800, MP7, MP10. All have new designs and engines.

Yamaha just added the word "STAGE". But It's still a CP series
Hey, I'm no cheer leader for Yamaha, so you'all are right and I'm wrong. I don't start these issues but when I read the reasons why Roland took something out, it infuriates me how people can spin anything!!!!


I object to your characterization of my posts regarding the RD800. At no point did I provide any explanation for why anything was taken out. I provided an alternative for what could be done with the features that do still exist. And said that I would inquire about some others. No spin there.

I just saw these comments. Completely unwarranted and completely false.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2295769 - 06/27/14 11:19 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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Roland's official notice released with options and gifts for us owners:

http://www.rolandus.com/go/rd-800/

Gifts; which one are you going for?

[Linked Image]


Last edited by Marko in Boston; 06/27/14 11:45 AM.

KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
#2295774 - 06/27/14 11:31 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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EssBrace Online content
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That's ok. It's a decent gesture and I think it will just about retain the goodwill they could have lost.

I'm not an owner - but I'd take the pedals. I had them with my FP-7F and they are pretty nice quality. Not sure most gigging people will want the pedals though.

#2295776 - 06/27/14 11:33 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: JayGVan]  
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36251 Offline
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland
I object to your characterization of my posts regarding the RD800. Jay
My comments written after a feature was not included on RD800, was not directed related to the RD800. Removing that feature and how you explained it, brought up my feelings about the newer versions of the FP4, a piano I held dear to my heart and thought about upgrading to newer versions only to find that Roland removed most insert effects and on/off switch for internal speakers, etc.

It's the general sense I get from Roland, that these decisions are made without the best interest of the players who purchase your products, which is why I commented. I'm seeing a pattern and maybe I'm wrong, but like everyone here, it's my opinion, which, I agree, don't mean that much.


AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP
#2295777 - 06/27/14 11:34 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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I'd quite happily take the pedals for gigging. Assuming they can be custom assigned for things like stop/start fast/slow on an Organ. Handy for the early buyers, not so much for those that waited patiently for a re-release (or those outside of the US, if it is US-only).

Pleased for you.

#2295781 - 06/27/14 11:54 AM Re: ROLAND RD-800 USER THREAD [Re: Marko in Boston]  
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[Linked Image]

Is this nonsense really necessary? Do I have to install it in order to "legally" sell or trade-in my RD800?

Here'e the remedy kit and instructions.

http://www.rolandus.com/go/rd-800/images/RD-800_Installation_Instructions.pdf



KAWAI ES7 | ROLAND RD-800 | YAMAHA CP4 | YAMAHA STAGEPAS 400i | PRESONUS R65 & T10 | SHURE SRH1540 | SENNHEISER HD650 | K&M OMEGA
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New Topics - Multiple Forums
Switching from acoustic to digital
by Julian95. 01/22/18 05:36 PM
Schimmel piano from the 80's
by From Amsterdam. 01/22/18 05:20 PM
PA System for Small/Medium gigs
by upbeat. 01/22/18 02:45 PM
The harpejji
by guyl. 01/22/18 12:31 PM
Loose Tuning pins already pounded down. Suggestions?
by Piano Danno. 01/22/18 12:15 PM
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