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Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Mark_C] #2277921 05/18/14 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by Derulux
....Think of it like the steel balls suspended from strings.. when you take one and hit it into the group, they all vibrate, and the ball on the end jumps out. But that resultant force is never greater than the initial impact. It physically can't be.

You're missing a key difference (no pun intended). grin

With the piano, you're suddenly getting the sounds of MANY MANY strings. Sure, the sound of any given one of those many strings won't equal the decay of the original chord, or of any single one of the original notes. But you aren't at all refuting the possibility that the entire amount of new sound will temporarily be greater than the decay -- and I think that if a skillful player (one of us, for example) ha does it, it is -- and I don't just mean in terms of subjective perception (by which I find it absolutely to be so), but measurably. Maybe one of our members if equipped to do the experiment -- but remember, it takes a skillful player (like one of us) grin who is trying for it to occur.

Remember, half my major in college was mechanical engineering, and this is a mechanical engineering question. wink


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
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Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Mark_C] #2277927 05/18/14 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C
Originally Posted by JoelW
Y'all are over-thinking this.

Oh really? ha

So.... what answer have you got without thinking? grin

There is no such thing as a real crescendo on a rest, as I'm sure you all know.

Doesn't anybody know what the illusion is? You just play a little louder on the note after the rest. What else could it be? laugh

I know that Barenboim, when talking about crescendoing on one note, talks about imagining the crescendo through the note so that when you get to the very next note, it is accordingly that much louder, as to give the illusion that you just crescendoed on that single note.

Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Mark_C] #2277928 05/18/14 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark_C

With the piano, you're suddenly getting the sounds of MANY MANY strings. Sure, the sound of any given one of those many strings won't equal the decay of the original chord, or of any single one of the original notes. But you aren't at all refuting the possibility that the entire amount of new sound will temporarily be greater than the decay -- and I think that if a skillful player (one of us, for example) ha does it, it is -- and I don't just mean in terms of subjective perception (by which I find it absolutely to be so), but measurably. Maybe one of our members if equipped to do the experiment -- but remember, it takes a skillful player (like one of us) grin who is trying for it to occur.

You're implying there are some magical things at work here that defy natural laws. It really isn't possible; only the perception by the listener of such a thing is possible. No "pianist" can suspend the laws of nature...


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Atrys] #2277940 05/18/14 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Atrys
No "pianist" can suspend the laws of nature...


Are you implying others can?

Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Parks] #2277947 05/18/14 01:20 PM
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Playing the piano is all about creating illusions - the illusion of legato, of cantabile, of lightness and weight, etc. A skillful artist will be able to convince the audience that in the space between two notes that there was growth, when in fact there was decay.



Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Kuanpiano] #2277950 05/18/14 01:25 PM
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Spot on, Kuan, and . . .

Originally Posted by Kuanpiano

A skillful artist will be able . . .



it would behoove us all to know how to obtain this ability.


Michael

"Genius is nothing more than an extraordinary capacity for patience."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Kuanpiano] #2277951 05/18/14 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Playing the piano is all about creating illusions - the illusion of legato, of cantabile, of lightness and weight, etc. A skillful artist will be able to convince the audience that in the space between two notes that there was growth, when in fact there was decay.



The best way is to hum.

Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Damon] #2277961 05/18/14 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Playing the piano is all about creating illusions - the illusion of legato, of cantabile, of lightness and weight, etc. A skillful artist will be able to convince the audience that in the space between two notes that there was growth, when in fact there was decay.



The best way is to hum.

lolololol +1


Poetry is rhythm
Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Damon] #2277963 05/18/14 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Damon
Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
Playing the piano is all about creating illusions - the illusion of legato, of cantabile, of lightness and weight, etc. A skillful artist will be able to convince the audience that in the space between two notes that there was growth, when in fact there was decay.



The best way is to hum.
Oh dear...

A fresh clone of Glen is on his way to stardom! grin

Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Kuanpiano] #2278725 05/20/14 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
A skillful artist will be able to convince the audience that in the space between two notes that there was growth, when in fact there was decay.



I've been going to concerts for over a half a century, and strangely enough, I've never heard this particular effect.

It is true that I have had the perception that the intent of a musical line in the imagination is supposed to grow during a rest, but I don't remember ever having had the experience of hallucinating the actual physical reality of it.

Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Parks] #2278761 05/20/14 08:48 AM
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This reminds me of the time a guy giving a masterclass tried to convince us he could play the same note several times and make it sound like it was travelling away from the piano in a different direction each time.

Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: debrucey] #2278803 05/20/14 10:58 AM
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lol

Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Parks] #2278807 05/20/14 11:05 AM
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There's more to music than sound . . .


Michael

"Genius is nothing more than an extraordinary capacity for patience."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Parks] #2278835 05/20/14 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Parks
There's more to music than sound . . .

Nope...music is a function of sound. You cannot have music without sound.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Atrys] #2278836 05/20/14 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Atrys
Originally Posted by Parks
There's more to music than sound . . .

Nope...music is a function of sound. You cannot have music without sound.



The reverse is more true: sound is a function of music. Consider the title of the movie: The Sound of Music.


Michael

"Genius is nothing more than an extraordinary capacity for patience."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Parks] #2278837 05/20/14 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Parks

The reverse is more true: sound is a function of music.

That isn't true in the slightest. Sound occurs independently of music, but music cannot occur independently of sound.

Do you really believe the statement you just said? How can you possibly believe that (serious question)?

Last edited by Atrys; 05/20/14 12:12 PM.

"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Parks] #2278843 05/20/14 12:21 PM
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All music is sound but not all sound is music.

Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Atrys] #2278845 05/20/14 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Atrys

Music cannot occur independently of sound.



You're a scientist. If you had to choose, would you say music originates in sound, or in the brain?


Michael

"Genius is nothing more than an extraordinary capacity for patience."
Leonardo da Vinci
Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Parks] #2278849 05/20/14 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Parks

You're a scientist.

No, I'm not.

Originally Posted by Parks

If you had to choose, would you say music originates in sound, or in the brain?

What does this have anything to do with anything?

The "origin" of music is in the sound waves, which are interpreted by the brain to be music.

Again, music is a function of sound. This is factually true and it's amazing that you don't see this.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Crescendo on a rest [Re: Parks] #2278857 05/20/14 12:32 PM
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I've studied the score for this piece, but never been able to play it.


Poetry is rhythm
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