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Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
#2277473 05/17/14 12:21 PM
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BrianDX Offline OP
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...or perhaps one of many knowledgeable folks on this forum.

In the spring 2014 edition of the Piano Buyer this quote caught my attention:

"The first and best way to avoid problems with room acoustics is to buy a piano that's the right size for the room. Too large a piano can overload a room with sound, while one that's too small may not be heard equally well in all parts of the space. A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."

Here is my question: How does that rule of thumb change if your ceiling height is nine feet (or taller)?

Thanks.



Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277477 05/17/14 12:25 PM
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Oh Man Brian!

I just woke up.......nobody told me there would be math questions this morning! I haven't even finished my coffee yet


KAWAI RX-3 BLAK
YAMAHA GRANTOUCH GT1
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277480 05/17/14 12:33 PM
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It doesn't change anything...at all: a piano's size has nothing to do with whether or not it will function in a room.

You might want to consider--all other things being equal--the amount of energy delivered to the strings via the action should be the same on all pianos, regardless of the size of the piano. A bigger soundboard doesn't equate to more volume (i.e., it is not a speaker), it is actually slightly less--particularly in the melodic section.

The size matters aspect comes in with the thinner bass strings in longer pianos. You should get the biggest piano you can afford, if a better balanced sound is what you are after. Everything else can be adjusted.

Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
A454.7 #2277486 05/17/14 12:54 PM
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Thanks for the info! This is kind of what I thought.

It just seemed strange to me that a "sizing formula" this specific was mentioned in that article.

Besides, I'm kind of "locked in" to my piano/room size combination. So far we are extremely pleased with our piano's performance in the room we have chosen.




Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277508 05/17/14 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
...or perhaps one of many knowledgeable folks on this forum.

In the spring 2014 edition of the Piano Buyer this quote caught my attention:

"The first and best way to avoid problems with room acoustics is to buy a piano that's the right size for the room. Too large a piano can overload a room with sound, while one that's too small may not be heard equally well in all parts of the space. A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."

Here is my question: How does that rule of thumb change if your ceiling height is nine feet (or taller)?

You can safely ignore this rule of thumb. Hopefully you'll be able to get your thumb out of the way before any real damage is done.

This question has come up several time on Piano Forum (though I don't know the topic titles). And the answer is still the same: Of far greater importance is the fundamental design of the piano (large or small) and its voicing.

In the dealer's showroom if a short piano seems a little bright to you it is probably going to drive you out (almost certainly smaller) room in your home. If the voice of a longer piano comes off a little on the soft side in that same showroom it will probably be about right in your home.

ddf


Delwin D Fandrich
Piano Research, Design & Manufacturing Consultant
ddfandrich@gmail.com
(To contact me privately please use this e-mail address.)

Stupidity is a rare condition, ignorance is a common choice. --Anon
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277531 05/17/14 02:27 PM
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If a train departs Haverhill, MA at 9:00 am, and a train leaves Elkhart, IN exactly 5 minutes later, what time will the ship arrive from Tianjin?

Then again, vaulted ceilings cause all sorts of havoc with piano shipping.

crazy


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277542 05/17/14 02:59 PM
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Here's one for you, Carbonblob, et.al.:

My grandson is about as many days as my son in weeks, and my grandson is as many months as I am in years. My grandson, my son and I together are 120 years. Can you tell me my age in years ?


Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277564 05/17/14 04:14 PM
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Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
Beacon Chris #2277590 05/17/14 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Beacon Chris
Here's one for you, Carbonblob, et.al.:

My grandson is about as many days as my son in weeks, and my grandson is as many months as I am in years. My grandson, my son and I together are 120 years. Can you tell me my age in years ?

I'd say 72.


My grand piano is a Yamaha C2 SG.
My other Yamaha is an XMAX 300.
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277596 05/17/14 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by BrianDX
In the spring 2014 edition of the Piano Buyer this quote caught my attention:

"The first and best way to avoid problems with room acoustics is to buy a piano that's the right size for the room. Too large a piano can overload a room with sound, while one that's too small may not be heard equally well in all parts of the space. A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."


In other words, never put a piano in a triangle-shaped room.


Eric Gloo
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Certified Dampp-Chaser Installer
Richfield Springs, New York
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
Eric Gloo #2277602 05/17/14 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric Gloo
Originally Posted by BrianDX
A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."


In other words, never put a piano in a triangle-shaped room.

I think we can make an exception, as long as it's tuned in Equilateral Temperament.

Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
Voltara #2277607 05/17/14 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Voltara
Originally Posted by Eric Gloo
Originally Posted by BrianDX
A rule of thumb: Assuming a ceiling height of eight feet, the combined lengths of the four walls should be at least ten times the length of a grand piano or the height of a vertical."


In other words, never put a piano in a triangle-shaped room.

I think we can make an exception, as long as it's tuned in Equilateral Temperament.

Good One !!!


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277639 05/17/14 08:27 PM
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OK this is fun; I just Googled "Equilateral Temperament" and this post came up first smile

I think we're making history here...


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
Groucho Marx: "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others."
Curriculum: Faber Developing Artist (Book 3)
Current: German Dance in D Major (Haydn) (OF); Melody (Schumann) (OF)
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277643 05/17/14 08:45 PM
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That makes cents.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
Minnesota Marty #2277709 05/17/14 11:51 PM
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Certainly resonates with me.

Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277767 05/18/14 03:34 AM
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Another dynamic to consider: When we pulled the carpet out of the room, "volume" on our little Hamilton grand 4'10" increased by at least 50%. Close your eyes and you'd think a 7' piano was playing. Much to think about when deciding upon acoustics and placement.


Bob W.
Piano Technician (Retired since 2006)
Conway, Arkansas
www.pianotechno.blogspot.com
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277784 05/18/14 04:56 AM
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Pianos seem to be tolerant of room size. Here's a rough and ready recast of the Piano Buyer rule of thumb. It indicates "preferred" and "maximum recommended" piano models, based on the smaller wall length:

8': upright
10': upright or baby grand, up to 165 mm
12': large upright or small grand, up to 195 mm
15': 180-190 mm grand, up to semi-concert grand
20': semi-concert grand, up to concert grand
30': concert grand.

Last edited by Withindale; 05/18/14 05:04 AM.

Ian Russell
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Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277900 05/18/14 11:57 AM
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PatH - you got it.


I am 72 years old.

Let m be my age in years. If s is my son's age in years, then my son is 52s weeks old. If g is my grandson's age in years, then my grandson is 365g days old. Thus,
365g = 52s.
Since my grandson is 12g months old,
12g = m.
Since my grandson, my son and I together are 120 years,
g + s + m = 120.
The above system of 3 equations in 3 unknowns (g, s and m) can be solved as follows.
m / 12 + 365 m / (52 x 12) + m = 120 or
52 m + 365 m + 624 m = 624 x 120 or
m = 624 x 120 / 1041 = 72.
So, I am 72 years old.


Musician, Singer, Teacher, Humorist, Dad...

“I have an inferiority complex, but it’s not a very good one.”
― Steven Wright
Re: Maybe the folks at Piano Buyer can answer this question...
BrianDX #2277909 05/18/14 12:15 PM
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slow down guys! I'm still working on the "price of tea" thing!

Beacon: did you ever see the opening of the movie "scanners"? yeah, that's me sitting next the doctor! Thanks.....now I have no head and the room is a mess.


KAWAI RX-3 BLAK
YAMAHA GRANTOUCH GT1

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