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Hey all I have a question that I figured that you guys may be able to help me with. I met this really good player the other night, and I was asking him about how to make progressions sound more interesting. He told me "it's all about suspensions", and he then proceeded to show me how he applies this concept to a simple progression like "Let it Be" by the Beatles. That progression is C G Am F, but for the F he applied what he called a "7-6 suspension". Basically instead of playing just the F major chord for 2 beats, he played Fmaj7 for 1 beat followed by F6 for the second beat. This added "flavor" rather than just the major chord.
He also said that there were 3 major "suspensions" like that..not to be confused with "sus chords". Now I know what a sus chord is (sus2 and sus4), and I thought maybe he was using different terminology than what he was actually doing. However, he was referring to these little two-note additions as "suspensions", and he said there are three main ones to know.
Do you guys know what he was talking about? Thanks!
My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race" and make a living from your passions. I now play guitar for a living at night and learn piano during the day!
it sounds to me like he is talking about tensions, not suspensions. tensions are 9, 11 and 13 that are added to chords to provide depth and color without altering the basic quality of the chord. in pop music and in particular, let it be, 9 is going to sound best on those chords.
Bill bill@jazzpianoonline.com www.JazzPianoOnline.com Online Jazz Piano Lessons Yamaha C7 Disklavier DC7ENSPRO
Thanks for the reply bud. Ya, I figured that he was talking about extensions, but than I asked him to clarify, and he said that he was specifically talking about the "movements" from one chord extension to the next tone...So in the example he was talking specifically about moving the "7" to the "6" (So instead of just playing an F major chord, he was replacing that with a 'moving' sound....the Fmaj7 to the F6 in place of just a 'static' F chord). That actual movement from one note to the next is what he was referring to as a "7-6 suspension".
He said something about 2 other ones as well, "9-8" and "4-3" I believe they were. I know that 9 is the same as 2, thus giving the sound of a sus2 chord, but he was adding it all the way up an octave higher and doing the movement from the "9" chord to just the regular major chord since "8" is simply the root, just an octave higher. He was referring to this whole "9-8" movement as a "suspension". I think their may be another term for it though which is why I'm asking this question. I'd like to search YouTube for this, but I don't know what to search for .
Thanks!
Last edited by Brian K.; 05/17/1402:58 PM.
My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race" and make a living from your passions. I now play guitar for a living at night and learn piano during the day!
He totally means 'suspension." Sorry JPO ... am not trying to be argumentative.
Suspensions comes from common-practice music theory - it's classical music theory - specifically counterpoint. The exemplars are Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, etc.
Wwith counterpoint is it's not about chords played one after another. It's about flowing lines that come together to make chords. If the theory you know only comes from the jazz side of the street this can be disconcerting. For some it seems arbitrary as to which way to go ... but that's a different question. Different systems get you different results. Usually the more we know the better off we are Usually ...
Bach's 371 Harmonised Chorales are about the best resource in the world to see and hear examples. The great jazz pianist Fred Hersch calls them the "Bible" of jazz voice leading.
The broader term for a suspension is a "non-chord tone." So that includes things like passing tones, appogiaturas, and there are others.
7-6, 4-3, 2-1 (sometimes called 9-8) - those are common in the ecosystem. Incidentally, in the theory system that Barry Harris teaches - he's a great jazz pianist and teacher if you haven't come across him - chords like C6 and not Cma7 are the basic sounds. In his system Cma7 resolves to C6 - as you friend described in the 7-6 example.
There are a million books you can read about harmony and voice leading and suspensions and what not. They're all going to refer to Bach Chorales for examples. It all goes perfectly well into jazz or other styles outside of classical music.
Hope this helps. I can post more examples if you'd like. I've posted quite a bit about this stuff on my blog ... just look in the tag list on the right hand side ...
He totally means 'suspension." Sorry JPO ... am not trying to be argumentative.
Suspensions comes from common-practice music theory - it's classical music theory - specifically counterpoint. The exemplars are Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, etc.
Wwith counterpoint is it's not about chords played one after another. It's about flowing lines that come together to make chords. If the theory you know only comes from the jazz side of the street this can be disconcerting. For some it seems arbitrary as to which way to go ... but that's a different question. Different systems get you different results. Usually the more we know the better off we are Usually ...
Bach's 371 Harmonised Chorales are about the best resource in the world to see and hear examples. The great jazz pianist Fred Hersch calls them the "Bible" of jazz voice leading.
The broader term for a suspension is a "non-chord tone." So that includes things like passing tones, appogiaturas, and there are others.
7-6, 4-3, 2-1 (sometimes called 9-8) - those are common in the ecosystem. Incidentally, in the theory system that Barry Harris teaches - he's a great jazz pianist and teacher if you haven't come across him - chords like C6 and not Cma7 are the basic sounds. In his system Cma7 resolves to C6 - as you friend described in the 7-6 example.
There are a million books you can read about harmony and voice leading and suspensions and what not. They're all going to refer to Bach Chorales for examples. It all goes perfectly well into jazz or other styles outside of classical music.
Hope this helps. I can post more examples if you'd like. I've posted quite a bit about this stuff on my blog ... just look in the tag list on the right hand side ...
Well I couldn't disagree with you more.
Classical theory doesn't welcome the sounds that jazz and blues are requiring. Trust me I have been trained classical, and Wow, they don't want darkness. Classical wants a resolution. And you can't have both!
Classical doesn't like certain chords that cause dissonance. Trust me. The devil's chord is not welcome in classical. Like this guy says, they'd hang you for it!
He told me "it's all about suspensions", and he then proceeded to show me how he applies this concept to a simple progression like "Let it Be" by the Beatles. That progression is C G Am F, but for the F he applied what he called a "7-6 suspension". Basically instead of playing just the F major chord for 2 beats, he played Fmaj7 for 1 beat followed by F6 for the second beat. This added "flavor" rather than just the major chord.
Brian, if you listen to the original recording of Let it be, Paul McCartney is very obviously playing the two chords you cite above, namely Fma7 for 1 beat followed by F6 on the second beat - the guy you met has added nothing to the original.
And definitely not tensions, just a simple passing chord to reflect a melody movement. I suppose you could call it a suspension of a kind if you really want to, but the important thing is the 'doing it' rather than the 'naming it'. For the most part, conventions on naming are no more than fodder for pointless disputes on forums.
Focus instead on what that simple change does for the piano accompaniment and how you can extend the same idea, but not necessarily 7-6, to great effect on so many other pop song accompaniments.
Hey thanks all for replying to this! Mark knew what I was talking about here. This guy did mention something about counterpoint in our conversation too. Yes, it was about flowing lines within a simple chord progression. This wasn't just about "let it be" that he as referring to. Rather, it was the theory behind this little chord change within a chord that he was pointing out to me.
I will definitely look into this more. Thanks everyone for the help!
Originally Posted by Mark Polishook
Brian,
He totally means 'suspension." Sorry JPO ... am not trying to be argumentative.
Suspensions comes from common-practice music theory - it's classical music theory - specifically counterpoint. The exemplars are Bach, Beethoven, Mozart, Haydn, etc.
Wwith counterpoint is it's not about chords played one after another. It's about flowing lines that come together to make chords. If the theory you know only comes from the jazz side of the street this can be disconcerting. For some it seems arbitrary as to which way to go ... but that's a different question. Different systems get you different results. Usually the more we know the better off we are Usually ...
Bach's 371 Harmonised Chorales are about the best resource in the world to see and hear examples. The great jazz pianist Fred Hersch calls them the "Bible" of jazz voice leading.
The broader term for a suspension is a "non-chord tone." So that includes things like passing tones, appogiaturas, and there are others.
7-6, 4-3, 2-1 (sometimes called 9-8) - those are common in the ecosystem. Incidentally, in the theory system that Barry Harris teaches - he's a great jazz pianist and teacher if you haven't come across him - chords like C6 and not Cma7 are the basic sounds. In his system Cma7 resolves to C6 - as you friend described in the 7-6 example.
There are a million books you can read about harmony and voice leading and suspensions and what not. They're all going to refer to Bach Chorales for examples. It all goes perfectly well into jazz or other styles outside of classical music.
Hope this helps. I can post more examples if you'd like. I've posted quite a bit about this stuff on my blog ... just look in the tag list on the right hand side ...
My personal blog/website dedicated to giving answers on the age old question - how to escape the "rat race" and make a living from your passions. I now play guitar for a living at night and learn piano during the day!
This wasn't just about "let it be" that he as referring to. Rather, it was the theory behind this little chord change within a chord that he was pointing out to me.
There is no theory behind that little chord change. McCartney plays 'songwriter's piano'. As such, he puts chords together through a combination of experience, trial and error and an instinct for what 'sounds nice'.
I think you'll find it wasn't his study of counterpoint (horizontal) which led him to use the Fma7, F6 but his knowledge of chords (vertical) and a sensitivity to melody. IOW, he arrived at that chord change by marrying his chordal knowledge and experimentation with an ear for a singing melody.
In pop music, counterpoint is rarely a consideration, even more rare in blues (green onions?...house of the rising sun?).
It's chords, stupid (sorry, Brian, that's not directed at you or anyone else in this thread, in any way )
There's a huge difference between on the one hand using the language of theory to discuss similar things heard in Bach and the Beatles, and on the other hand, saying so-and-so used the language of "this theory" or "that theory" to compose their music. Sounds like Brian's excellent friend did the the former but not the latter.
Brian - if you want more info about counterpoint just shout! ... but there's plenty of stuff out there on the web. You might be best off just looking about for it and finding what's useful. You'll know where to go with it as you find it. But, again if you need context ....
There's a huge difference between on the one hand using the language of theory to discuss similar things heard in Bach and the Beatles, and on the other hand, saying so-and-so used the language of "this theory" or "that theory" to compose their music. Sounds like Brian's excellent friend did the the former but not the latter.
For the most part, pop music comes to life without any recourse to theory. I would argue that this is a characteristic of the best pop music. 'Theory', for the good it does, comes *after* the music is written (or conceived, it's not usually written!) as an attempt to codify the process of inspiration. Generally, it does a very poor job.
Not sure what you mean by 'former' and 'latter' above. 'this' and 'that' maybe?
Of course pop music can come to life without recourse to theory. Same with the idea that theory comes after the music is written. Of course it comes afterwards. No one in this discussion said otherwise.
Is theory, as you say, an attempt to codify the process of inspiration?" My opinion based on my professional experience teaching theory at the university level is, no, that incorrect. Although it is a common unfortunate stereotype that often seen and heard. Probably because there's a lot of jargon in theory. But every professional field has jargon.
All theory does is provide common terms and concepts. For example: "chord" and "passing chord" - terms that came up earlier in the discussion. Chords exist in music by Bach and the Beatles. An F major triad in Bach and an F major triad in the Beatles are the same exact chord. Both of them include F, A, and C.
Using the language of theory to say something about similarities in music (between Bach and Beatles for example) isn't the same as explaining what inspired the music. Inspiration is something else entirely. And it's wonderful when it comes
Chords exist in music by Bach and the Beatles. An F major triad in Bach and an F major triad in the Beatles are the same exact chord. Both of them include F, A, and C.
This is true but I don't see why that's of any interest. How do we make use of your observation above?
Quote
Wwith counterpoint is it's not about chords played one after another.
I have to make a counterpoint to this:-
In pop, it's not about counterpoint, it's about chords played one after another....
Most good jazz/pop/blues pianist play chords! Every good pop/jazz/blues pianist I know are going on chords and not classical theory. Most don't have a classical theory background but they certain have a jazz theory & they can play on the fly.
Also, you have to understand where jazz theory comes from. It comes from the black gospel churches. That's where the authentic jazz and pop sound comes from, not classical theory. Elvis Presley, every chance he got, was visiting the BLACK GOSPEL CHURCHES in the south USA (check out Dr. John and his talks on Jazz) because Elvis Presley wanted THAT sound! & The Beatles were avid listeners of Elvis Presley. Dominos effect!
If classical pieces sounded like good Jazz/pop/blues, then the classical halls would busting at the seams, . . . and they AREN"T!
Jazz/pop/blues is all about chords! Substitutions, Maj7ths, 7ths, 9ths 13, etc.
every pianist plays chords Diane. unless they only have one finger. every chord can be theorized in a jazz or classical way, infact they are both the same. what do u mean by classical??? do you mean music by old dead people? or stuff played on violins and french horns? are you saying that classical halls aren't bursting at the seems (where you live) is a sign that classical music (what ever you mean by that) is not good? like good? jazz pop blues?
i personally only listen to music. i dont judge about things such as when it was created (two weeks ago or 50 years ago) or how many people like it or what instruments are being used. in my ears - music is music - a human emotion be it pop, blues, jazz, opera, string quartets, piano music, heavy metal, symphonies, bla bla bla bla bla
what do u mean by classical??? do you mean music by old dead people?
Well, I don't belong to the "all white boys club"! Just so you know! I'm going to "New Orleans" this summer and I can't wait. Authentic talented musicians & pianists that could teach me, ...& you a thing or two! Did I mention the jazz & blues clubs are packed too! Just sayin'
It's maybe because I'm not from that part of the world that I don't get your lingo. U talk in riddles (in my language). But it's nice to see that you appreciate some music. I love New Orleans too.
It always surprises me when people talk about classical theory versus jazz theory. It's just theory.
Same with technique. Good pianists usually have good technique whether they're playing jazz or classical.
To the OP I'd argue as has already been said, the Let It Be chords are Fmaj7 and F6. While it might resemble a suspension, it's not. It's just two chords. But it is common to alternate the two types to give movement to the harmony. And not just in jazz or pop.
What's missing is the pure essence of Jazz theory!
Jazz theory is different from Classical theory. I've learned both, and Classical frowns on certain theory ideas and Jazz theory welcomes it!
If you don't know that, then I feel sorry for you!
Diane, thanks for your reply! I as much as anybody here am enthusiastic about learning new things. Could you elaborate on the difference between a minor 2nd (or semitone) in classical compared to the same interval in jazz? You said they were different but then you didn't say how.
And I appreciate your sympathy but you don't need to feel sorry for me
What's missing is the pure essence of Jazz theory!
Jazz theory is different from Classical theory. I've learned both, and Classical frowns on certain theory ideas and Jazz theory welcomes it!
If you don't know that, then I feel sorry for you!
Diane, thanks for your reply! I as much as anybody here am enthusiastic about learning new things. Could you elaborate on the difference between a minor 2nd (or semitone) in classical compared to the same interval in jazz? You said they were different but then you didn't say how.
And I appreciate your sympathy but you don't need to feel sorry for me
It's what's NOT there that you should be seeing! I don't think you see what's missing. If you honestly can't SEE it, ... I feel even MORE sorry for you!
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