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I look at a client's personality, then examine the issue at hand. Fortune 50 companies make their execs take the MBTI (Myers-Briggs Type Indicator) because it's a surprisingly accurate indicator of future success. People in an unsuitable job for their personality will burn out like a candle. Some people are adept at leading, others at following, etc. and by figuring out your personality, you can figure out what you're most likely to thrive and shine in.

Career coaches coach, not counsel. They help you see your career in clear light, what needs to happen, and where you want to go. They don't help with behavioural issues like addictions and anxiety-- these may take much, much longer than 1 hour. Here's a quick article on coaching vs counselling.

Perhaps it's easier to think of it like practice coaching or even dietary consulting: If you think you're on track for disease, then you talk to someone who tells you how to fix your diet and exercise, how to eat right.

And if you're thinking, "But that's food-- don't you just cut calories to lose weight?" Think about this: food defines what you look like and how you act. Eat the wrong foods and your face might break out, you might become overweight, your hormones get out of whack. Not to mention, you might get a belly, develop allergies, diseases, etc. If an earthquake destroyed the city and your job is gone, you'd still need food to sustain yourself.

But people who go to dietary consulting aren't just looking to scrape by sustaining themselves like they were in an earthquake. Everyone is different-- genetics, living conditions, what they consumed while growing up. And sometimes it takes 30 minutes for a dietary consultant to sort it all out.

If you take anything away from me at all:
A good career coach only needs 1 hour to solve the issue at hand. Any more, and you'll be keeping someone company.

Often, when coaching with my clients, we take less than an hour to sort everything out, and use the remaining time to look at the client's resume.

This discussion has been interesting, thanks to everyone who reached out.

In case you need career advice:

- My buddy Penelope Trunk gives great, straight-up unconventional advice: http://penelopetrunk.com - she's awesome at writing resumes (she doesn't talk about it 24/7 though)
- Forbes is good to keep your eye on, research and different professionals: http://forbes.com
- Business Insider: http://www.businessinsider.com
- And of course NYT for the rising ideas in the world

If you have any questions, feel free to message me-- I'll show you the direction over messaging as best as I can.

Blu: OK, let's take a close look....


There are a couple of problems right there:

-- Most people aren't able to get a good feel for someone's "personality" in a brief not-in-person contact; heck, most people probably can't do it very well from a brief contact even in person. Double heck....it's far from sure whether most people could do it at all, even in person and with infinite contact.

-- You haven't given any indication that you're the rare person who can do it in a brief online contact.


I disagree with that. I don't think it's even slightly accurate as any indicator of "future success." I would agree that it's quite accurate in describing a person's characteristics -- not hugely accurate even for that, but impressively accurate for such a standard pencil-and-paper test. But for saying what field would be good for someone, beyond just being somewhat suggestive, or for predicting "success"? No way.


I agree. But that leaves us with the above concerns.


I agree that general counseling is still more complex. But you're playing with semantics a little by trying to say this is "coaching" and not counseling; it usually is called counseling. Whatever it's called, it's not a simple activity, and the person is putting him/herself significantly in your hands.


Again, a couple of things:

-- I disagree about an hour usually being sufficient for any significant help, especially if it's not in-person.

-- You haven't given any basis for people to be confident that you're "good." I'm not saying you aren't, or that I don't think you are, just that you haven't given any basis for people to think anything in particular. A couple of people on this thread who aren't nearly as skeptical as I am have said they think you'd need to say more. Saying more still wouldn't make me think this would be a good way to go about such a thing, but it might make others feel they have a good enough basis.


P.S. (edit) What the heck....on 2nd thought, I can sort of see it how Derulux said. If someone wants to try it, why not. But I'd add that hopefully they'd be aware of the limitations and unknowns, and they'd approach it with some reserve. And, of course, not feel that they'd have to take any possible next steps that they weren't comfortable with.

Great, let's take a look:



There's still a counsellor in that description-- a career coach probably isn't going to tell you what personality you are, because you start the career conversation already knowing. If you need someone to tell you what personality you are, then you need a type coach or another type of counsellor.

Also, another point: coaching isn't magic. Just like the fact that talking to someone isn't going to make you a supermodel, a career coach won't get you a dream job. They'll show you how to get it, but you still do the work. Here's a great article about career coaching on Forbes.

Edit: Personality typing doesn't work the way you're describing-- most people dislike when being told who they are.

You can't just tell someone, "You're introverted, and spontaneous, etc... I know because I talked to you for an hour." No one is going to accept it, expert or not. The person has to discover, then confirm, for themselves.



Here's a little blurb I just wrote up for another post-- let's put it this way:

1. Everyone has a set of traits to bring to the table.
2. Some jobs are better suited for people who have these traits, because of their nature, so these people are more likely to succeed and be happier.
3. Your personality does not determine which job you should have, but understanding it will help you shape your career into a satisfying one that fits your personality.
4. The fact that some people choose to go against their personality typing at first, says something about their personality.

If you look up great CEOs, you'll find that they consist of a few personality types. That's because they are the type of person most likely to thrive in that position-- and they have.



It would be a waste of everyone's time if someone arrived knowing that they wouldn't follow any advice. Again, talking to someone isn't going to make you a supermodel, and it won't give you a dream job either.

You still have to work it out yourself; the coach helps you shape the tools and options in your career. If anyone contacted a career coach as a joke, then it's a huge insult to their own career as well as that of the coach's.

If you ever reach a point where you think your career can use some guidance in the right direction, or if you feel stuck, don't be afraid to reach out to a career coach-- you'd be surprised at the common issues that "everyone" goes through in their career-- you're not alone. Have a great day.

Well Socrates was too long ago and the motivational bloggers are right now!

Oh my God, absolutely. No one should ever take steps they aren't comfortable with. (Edit: This is a little different from discomfort caused by trying to "get out of your shell".. I don't mean to say we should never put ourselves in uncomfortable situation, because sometimes discomfort is helpful for growth, but this particular situation is slightly different.) Perhaps my willingness is born out of an ability to be comfortable in uncomfortable situations. This is a great disclaimer for anyone who does want to give it a go.



Now, then. After reading more of the comments and the thread in general, I have officially become far more skeptical than I was after the initial post. The original post is now gone (making me even more skeptical), but I can still see some pretty big discrepancies that are slamming my radar pretty hard.

Bluoh, you said this: "A good career coach only needs 1 hour to solve the issue at hand. Any more, and you'll be keeping someone company."

The article you linked us to said this: "It actually takes about eight to 10 hours of counseling for the typical client to begin internalizing the key benefits of coaching."

I find this confusing, because (ostensibly) it would seem that a business professional publishing on Forbes would have a pretty decent idea what they're talking about. But even if they didn't, you replicated its message as "a great article" and that author's message differs significantly from yours.

I think there may be value in what you are offering. I genuinely believe this. I do not believe you are trying to be deceptive/deceitful at all. But I think it got a little lost in translation by the way you presented it. I've read three pages of the thread, know exactly what career coaching is, and still have no idea what, specifically, you would be offering. I've seen contradictory information (like the example I provided here), over-generalizations, and poorly drawn conclusions.

An example of the conclusions would be the weight loss comment --
P.S. A tidbit of psychology:
A credential is a piece of information. But information is useless. Because no one acts on it. If sharing information gets people to act, then no one would be overweight in the US.
Weight loss products share a TON of information, and it does get people to act. People buy those weight loss products like the plague, and that is the goal of that kind of marketing/information sharing.

The parallel you are trying to draw here, that purchasing those products and then using them for success are not inherently linked, is more akin to someone taking one of your sessions and then failing to put the plan in action. But getting people in the door, ie actually purchasing your product, is all about credentials/information. And when they do come through the door, they have already taken the first step. They have already acted.

What surprises me is that you failed to draw this conclusion, while in the same thread stating:

I fail to see how you could completely miss the point of baiting a hook in order to get the fish to bite. To me, this thread dropped a hook in the water, but there was no bait. In other words, it seems you missed the psychological trigger that causes people to "buy in".

Perhaps that's a sign of the times -- people are so desperate, they'll jump at anything just to be doing something (even if that something ends up being unproductive). I don't know the answer to that. But I do know that, regardless of whether this was a true "free" offer or a "feeder" for the pay courses, you'll get a lot more nibbles if there's something other than a metal hook to nibble on.

So, if you're serious about this offer, perhaps it might serve everyone best if you would state exactly what it is you want to do for people, and exactly why it is that you're the right person to do this. And assume they don't know what a career coach is, or why they might want to talk to one.

....and "the offer is over."

Maybe some of our thoughts gave him pause and he's re-thinking it -- which wouldn't be bad.


P.S. In fairness to Bluoh, there's a side issue here that looms large to me, and it could be bias more than reality. I referred to it a few times: the issue of online help vs. "in-person." Obviously more and more stuff is being conducted online, and obviously a lot of it is real good. But, I'm very skeptical about how effective certain kinds of things can be if they're not done in-person, and career counseling is one of them. I don't doubt that it can be done, but I don't think it can be done nearly as well, because of not being able to get as good a feel for the client, and I think it's a rarer counselor who is able to do it even half well. The idea that "the person knows his personality" and that this takes care of it is, to me, baloney and a cop-out. Some counselors might feel that none of this matters anyway because a lot of the "coaching" is done with standardized tools (like the Myers-Briggs test that Bluoh mentioned) and a set method. But, IMO that's not good counseling and doesn't do more than scratch the most superficial surface, especially if the counselor is proposing to do it in an hour. That's not career counseling (or "coaching," or whatever we call it); it's a bare approximate impersonal introduction to career counseling.

But, having said all that and despite believing fully that it's very right, I have to say also that I realize every ounce of it is polluted by my biases. The world may be moving away from what I'm saying and toward what Bluoh was wanting to do. I would guess that indeed the online methodologies for almost everything will increase and will get better and better -- but that along with that, there will be growing recognitions of what kinds of things don't lend themselves very well to it, at least to 1-hour solutions. (BTW: Do I do such things in 1 hour? Sometimes, sort of. Do I think I could ever do it online in 1 hour? Absolutely not.)

Maybe you were thinking of FSO. She was often tagged as a he, even though she's a she.

As I said in my original post here, bluoh is not a one post spammer! He's a rather regular here, so it's something worth discussing (as we all did). The offer is now over, which generally is a pity, since it involved someone offering something... :-/

The rest belongs to the Internet history.

I freed up some time in my schedule, so I volunteered to offer free career advice to people here. Now my schedule is filled up, so the offer is over.

I removed the original post because it's not helpful to people looking for career advice; I added the career resources instead because someone who needs career advice would find it more useful. I came home late last night to check my messages, and realized that my schedule for the next 3 weeks was full, and I couldn't fit new clients and stay sane.

Please try to understand that although I've made an offer to volunteer, I am still a human being, and my work is still valuable to me and others who work with me. I don't counsel, I coach. Also, I couldn't do it full-time because I'm Introverted and I don't want to talk to people continuously, for 10+ hours a day.

Once a person understands their personality, it becomes a visible factor in their career; a career coach can help them see what's best in terms of their personality and career. It shouldn't take more than an hour-- understanding personality is the hardest part. When it does take more than one hour, it's probably because the person can't accept that their personality is different from what they've thought for xx years.



I assumed that everyone knew what a career coach does-- to me, that would be like explaining what a piano tuner does. (The publications listed above are some of my favourite-- you can't miss career coaching in the work sector.) But yes, partway through, I realized that the idea of a career coach isn't clear in everyone's minds.

I was serious about offering free career coaching. But the offer is over because my schedule is full for the next few weeks. If there is enough demand, I may offer it again over the summer.

I can't go through every little comment about career coaching here-- I won't for sanity's sake, and I'm not trying to sell myself-- but it'll be helpful to clear up a few ideas about career coaching.

A few notes:

• Coaching isn't counselling; if you have a behavioural issue, like addiction or anxiety, you probably need a counsellor.
• Coaching is solution-driven, you come out knowing what to do. Counselling is process-driven, you come out understanding the behavioural, emotional, psychological processes that keep you from a great career.
• A career coach helps you see the tools and options in your life and career, and points you to the best direction. However, you still do the work-- the coach won't GET a dream job for you.
• When you're looking for a career coach, you're not looking for the most decorated person (with fancy degrees). You're looking for someone you have a connection with, or someone you feel like you can trust. (The person can still have fancy degrees, just don't let that be your only deciding factor.) Because, believe me, you will probably hate it if some cocky expert (someone you don't have a connection with) tells you what to do with your life. And you will hate the idea that you paid someone to tell you something you will never do.
• Here's an article about career coaching on Forbes: 10 things you should know about career coaching
• If you come to the coaching session with an understanding of your personality (the coach will tell you how to go about doing this), it can be done over the phone or Skype. It won't be through messaging, because you can't connect with the coach.
  

If you ever feel stuck or lost in your career, or you're just looking for a boost, don't be afraid to reach out to a career coach. And as mentioned above, it doesn't hurt to see your options-- you might be surprised.

Have a great day!

I feel like I've got a lot of ability I don't know what to do with...have always been short on basic life skills, lol, so I don't think such advice would be a bad idea.

It sounds like coaching wouldn't be a bad idea for you. In fact, coaching can be a good idea for anyone who's willing to accept a new perspective.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to PM me. If I can't answer it in one message, I'll direct you to a blog post or resource.

It's funny you say that! I think the discussion was interesting, but it also felt like an attack from different sides (and people whom I respected). Like my work was laid out and picked apart-- only I didn't lay any work down, just the idea of it.

Maybe we can start a different discussion thread about career coaching...

P.S. Would anyone else have responded to my offer if I'd left it up for longer? The coaching is about an hour, but there's "behind-the-scenes" work that I have to do. I only had space for one or two people, but I'm curious: If there's enough demand, I might offer it again over the summer.

That might be a good idea, but it similarly might be off topic for the Pianist Corner. Not sure where the best place is to put it where that discussion can unfold unfettered?

It will provide an opportunity to expand on what you might be offering people, and how deeply into the experience you're willing to go.

For example, if I just want to know, "Hey, can I make it in sales?" you might be able to give a pretty quick answer based on how the person feels about interacting with people they don't and how they feel about rejection. But if someone is completely lost in terms of career direction, I wonder how easily that can be resolved.. and I'm not talking within one job vertical, but between verticals. It's much easier to shift focus within one vertical than to take on an entirely new career.

I already covered my part of the discussion. You don't deserve to be attacked, since you're an old time member, and thus not an one time spammer at all!

But at the same time your post did seem peculiarly close to advertising, but it also felt a little beating around the bush, which I think brought in the discussion... :-/

That's exactly it. It had the appearance of very possibly being motivated mainly by the hope that people who take the free offer will then become paying customers, plus, IMO more importantly, there were assertions about what could be expected that seemed questionable and exaggerated. If it were just the advertising/marketing thing, I wouldn't have posted anything. It was the latter aspects that brought me in.

I hear what you're saying... I suppose different people read the same message differently-- someone commented that the message needed to be more like an advertisement.


The assertions weren't expectations (I only recall making one assertion anyways); rather, they were a broad stroke of past experience. Since I chose not to offer any credentials, people would still like to know what I'm about.

Like I said, it takes an hour to do this-- people who took me up couldn't become paying customers. Unless, of course, they were in conflict about their own personalities, it would take more than an hour to convince them, but I probably wouldn't let them pay for it, since I offered to career-coach for free.