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Originally Posted by mordecai
After reading about the realism of the Kawai MP11's GF soundbed, I ordered one. Fresh out of the box, before even powering up, I found this:
http://youtu.be/zGLASJ-0Ehk
How on Earth can that pass through QC undetected. I'm really annoyed because of the awkwardness and weight involved in boxing it up, managing the stairs, repeating the whole thing with a replacement....
I really wish I'd ordered the MP7.


Hmm, that's pretty awful sounding. Have you contacted Kawai to let them know about this?


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Another one that wasn't there originally, but may develop if you remove the key a couple of times... Quite a subtle one that you might not care about frankly.

Title: Odd key return noise

Symptoms: The key makes a different key return noise to its neighbours, which are silent, a bit like a sticker being peeled off.

OK, this is not very easy to notice on the video, but you should hear a different return noise on the C if you listen with headphones...



Fix summary: Apply grease to hammer pivot (untested)

Repair instructions: Since I didn't have any Kawai grease, I found that swapping the hammers with its neighbours temporarily seemed to even the grease out, and quell the noise.

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Originally Posted by mordecai

[snip]
I really wish I'd ordered the MP7.

I am sitting in front of a brand new MP7 and I am wondering, about a loud key thumping noise, which seems to me louder than what I tested on another MP7 in the show room just one day earlier. It is not as bad as your case, but if I play a single line voice introduction of a little Bach fugue, you hear the "thump thump thump" as a kind of extra percussion with every key stroke. (Besides a humming noise from the power adapter.) To me it feels, as if a damping felt has been forgotten somewhere.

Just out of curiosity, on the packaging box of the MP11, does it also say "Made in Indonesia" as for the MP7?

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I phoned the seller straight away (Umbrella Music UK) and sent them this video. I guess they'll forward it to Kawai? I hope.

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Yes Iophiomys, It does say "made in Indonesia" on the box. What are your thoughts?

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Title: Clicky key tops

Symptoms: Tapping the key tops yields a different, higher pitched sound for some keys. Case in point, D in this video.

Different tap sound still present when keys are held down and tapped.

I removed the keys from the board and tapped them all over, and compared to an unaffected key. I could not hear any difference, which seems to lessen the probability that it's due to delamination.



Fix summary: Unknown
Not sure what causes this. If I swap the key to a different position, it still makes the noise, so it's a property of the key itself.

Repair instructions: Unknown. Could swap key with a less-used octave. Or obtain replacement key as spare part.

Last edited by lolatu; 05/16/14 04:23 PM.
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Originally Posted by lolatu
Perhaps another one for the OCD pile, but here goes...

Title: Clicky key tops

Symptoms: Tapping the key tops yields a different, higher pitched sound for some keys. Case in point, D in this video.



Fix summary: Unknown
Not sure what causes this. If I swap the key to a different position, it still makes the noise, so it's a property of the key itself. Maybe loose bushing?

Repair instructions: Unknown


Could it be a fraction of a millimetre of space between the wood and the 'ivory' laminate? Or a small patch of missing adhesive which would amount to the same thing.

Good thread by the way, a useful addition to the knowledge pool. Perhaps you're the Zimerman of the DP world - ready to get your hands dirty.

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Can you hear or feel these over the sound of the piano? I'm sure you would get much the same on any instrument, DP and AP with the sound off. It's great to minimize them, but at some point perhaps a bit unreasonable to expect perfection.

I was able to replicate that tapping sound as well, but only if I "struck" the note in a tapping motion like that on the harder part of my finger. Playing it from the keytops on the soft pad of my finger (i.e., normal playing position) and press the key down, however, I did not.


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Originally Posted by mordecai
After reading about the realism of the Kawai MP11's GF soundbed, I ordered one. Fresh out of the box, before even powering up, I found this:
http://youtu.be/zGLASJ-0Ehk


I honestly have no idea what has happened to your MP11, but there's absolutely no way the keyboard should sound like that.

You've done the correct thing in contacting the retailer, however I would also recommend contacting Kawai UK to allow the staff there to investigate the reason for the instrument's noisy keyboard action.

Again, this is definitely not normal. Indeed, contrary to what lolatu would have you believe in this thread, the vast majority of Kawai digital piano keyboard actions - regardless of whether they use wooden or plastic keys - have a very smooth and quiet motion, and are widely regards as being the most authentic available.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Morodiene
Can you hear or feel these over the sound of the piano? I'm sure you would get much the same on any instrument, DP and AP with the sound off. It's great to minimize them, but at some point perhaps a bit unreasonable to expect perfection.

I was able to replicate that tapping sound as well, but only if I "struck" the note in a tapping motion like that on the harder part of my finger. Playing it from the keytops on the soft pad of my finger (i.e., normal playing position) and press the key down, however, I did not.

Can hear/feel it the tapping when playing softly without headphones. Not when playing loud. Can't hear it if the finger is already in position on the key and I just press down, like you say. It's not particularly annoying, though I do notice it. Also its noticeability depends a lot on how many other notes I'm playing at the same time. It's mainly just this D. In fact I might just swap the key over with the D an octave lower that's barely ever used.

I've pretty much rectified the other issues!

Originally Posted by dire tonic
Could it be a fraction of a millimetre of space between the wood and the 'ivory' laminate? Or a small patch of missing adhesive which would amount to the same thing.

Yeah maybe. It also sounds different if I hold it and surrounding keys down and tap them, which would support this theory. I'll edit the post above to say this.


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In my old upright this sound comes before a keytop gets unglued...


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Originally Posted by mordecai
After reading about the realism of the Kawai MP11's GF soundbed, I ordered one. Fresh out of the box, before even powering up, I found this:
http://youtu.be/zGLASJ-0Ehk


I guess I just lucked out -- I just checked every key on my new MP11 and there are none of the horrible noises plainly evident in the video you made. I agree with you that even though I'm sure that Kawai will replace this defective instrument, it's a big hassle for you. (I also experienced quite an ordeal in getting mine upstairs by myself!) A replacement will undoubtedly solve the problem, but that doesn't really amount to the same thing as getting it right the first time!

By the way, I absolutely LOVE the Grand Feel action. It is, by far, the best piano action I've ever experienced on a digital piano. I also have a very fine Kawai acoustic grand piano and I've compared its action with my MP11. They're not the same, and the acoustic piano action is clearly superior in both obvious and subtle ways. But the MP11 Grand Feel action is closer to it than anything else, and is a fine, extremely playable action in its own right. I'm glad I bought the MP11 for this reason alone. And the sounds are pretty good too, especially with some patient and diligent tweaking to tame the excessive brightness of the factory presets.

As for your wish that you had bought the MP7 -- well, there are some issues with the early release of that instrument also. However, due to its "zone" structure, rather than "sections" (as on the MP11), it is really a much more user-customizable piano than the MP11. My wish? I want an MP7 with a Grand Feel keyboard!


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Originally Posted by mordecai
Yes Iophiomys, It does say "made in Indonesia" on the box. What are your thoughts?


Yeah, outsourcing -- it's all the rage these days.

I'm thinking of getting into it myself for my next recording. I've located these two guys in Bangalore who will compose, perform, and record all the music for a very good price! crazy

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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by mordecai
After reading about the realism of the Kawai MP11's GF soundbed, I ordered one. Fresh out of the box, before even powering up, I found this:
http://youtu.be/zGLASJ-0Ehk


I honestly have no idea what has happened to your MP11, but there's absolutely no way the keyboard should sound like that.

You've done the correct thing in contacting the retailer, however I would also recommend contacting Kawai UK to allow the staff there to investigate the reason for the instrument's noisy keyboard action.

Again, this is definitely not normal. Indeed, contrary to what lolatu would have you believe in this thread, the vast majority of Kawai digital piano keyboard actions - regardless of whether they use wooden or plastic keys - have a very smooth and quiet motion, and are widely regards as being the most authentic available.

Kind regards,
James
x


Thank you James, I'll send Kawai UK an email right now. Can I somehow request that the replacement MP11 is opened and checked before I get it? At 43kg, it's too heavy and cumbersome to go through this again. I'm afraid the replacement will be problematic too as I'm sure this is a problem with production, not manhandling, because the box is pristine.

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Originally Posted by Kawai James


Indeed, contrary to what lolatu would have you believe in this thread
Kind regards,
James
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So unfair and demagogic.
Lolatu is sharing some experiences on his instrument, and showing all of us how to manage with those noises, just in case.
He never said that every,nor most CA's are like that.His is.
But again, you choosed to say that this is something peculiar, a case of bad luck.
Those who speak about any issue in our kawais (which, by the way, are quite repeated and consistent: key clicks, deffective foam or rubber, dirty sensors, bad assembling or loose screws...)appear, under your argumentation, as liers, exaggerative people or geeks whose only interest is to talk rubish.
As you are not neutral, yout attitude sounds (politely) disrespectful.
Since I read these forums, I found 95% of people here to be very clever, and I guess most of casual readers are, too. So may I ask you to trust on people's intelligence and not playing that role? Again smile


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Originally Posted by mordecai
Can I somehow request that the replacement MP11 is opened and checked before I get it?


I believe this really depends up to the store. I know some Kawai dealers (the traditional bricks and mortar shops) who will open-up the box, check the piano fully, and install the latest firmware etc. before delivering the instrument (with their own staff) to the customers home. Admittedly, this kind of service is becoming rather less common with the rise of internet retailers shipping products from large warehouses. However, given your unfortunate experience with the first MP11, I believe it's in the retailer's best interests to check that the replacement is absolutely perfect before it's shipped.

Best of luck!

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by mabraman
So unfair and demagogic.
Lolatu is sharing some experiences on his instrument, and showing all of us how to manage with those noises, just in case.
He never said that every,nor most CA's are like that.His is.
But again, you choosed to say that this is something peculiar, a case of bad luck.
Those who speak about any issue in our kawais (which, by the way, are quite repeated and consistent: key clicks, deffective foam or rubber, dirty sensors, bad assembling or loose screws...)appear, under your argumentation, as liers, exaggerative people or geeks whose only interest is to talk rubish.
As you are not neutral, yout attitude sounds (politely) disrespectful.
Since I read these forums, I found 95% of people here to be very clever, and I guess most of casual readers are, too. So may I ask you to trust on people's intelligence and not playing that role? Again smile


mabraman, it seems that we are coming to blows once again.

It's obviously not my intention to cause conflict within this forum, so if you feel this is the case, I can only apologise.

I certainly did not intend to suggest that individuals posting in this thread (and elsewhere on the forum) are liars, and talking rubbish, etc.

I shall try to be less disrespectful in the future.

Kind regards,
James
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Originally Posted by Savante
As for your wish that you had bought the MP7 -- well, there are some issues with the early release of that instrument also. However, due to its "zone" structure, rather than "sections" (as on the MP11), it is really a much more user-customizable piano than the MP11. My wish? I want an MP7 with a Grand Feel keyboard!



Can anyone explain a little more and give pros/cons about the practical differences between the zone vs. section structures of the MP7 and MP11?

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Originally Posted by mordecai
After reading about the realism of the Kawai MP11's GF soundbed, I ordered one. Fresh out of the box, before even powering up, I found this:
http://youtu.be/zGLASJ-0Ehk
How on Earth can that pass through QC undetected. I'm really annoyed because of the awkwardness and weight involved in boxing it up, managing the stairs, repeating the whole thing with a replacement....
I really wish I'd ordered the MP7.


Well after powering up, I've found another problem with this keyboard. G5 (3rd G above middle C) sustains without a sustain pedal. I don't think it's another "key" problem because it plays a VST piano (Ivory ii) fine, with and without pedal. Have any other MP11 owners seen this with G5, or is it unique to mine?
I'm getting more and more cautious about Kawai's quality. I have to tell you, I've bought hardware and keyboards from Akai, Roland, Korg, Fatar, M Audio and Behringer, and I've not had a single problem with them, and never had to return an item. My very first Kawai and it's not good news :-(

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Originally Posted by mordecai

....I've found another problem with this keyboard. G5 (3rd G above middle C) sustains without a sustain pedal. I don't think it's another "key" problem because it plays a VST piano (Ivory ii) fine, with and without pedal. Have any other MP11 owners seen this with G5, or is it unique to mine?


This is not a problem, if you mean G6. All DPs imitate this behaviour, which is how real pianos work: from around G6 (or third G above middle C) upwards, no strings are damped because they sustain so little, it's not worth it. Plus, it enriches the resonant quality of the piano as a whole when these high strings are left free to vibrate at all times.


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