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Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: JoelW] #2271680
05/05/14 11:22 PM
05/05/14 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
Why does it matter if the opinion is popular or not?

It matters because it reflects important information about the state of that sample at some moment in time, which directly affects major systems: commercial, noncommercial, political and the rest of it; all of these things are contingent on popular opinions of varying "degrees of affect" of the power set of the population.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
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Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: phantomFive] #2271682
05/05/14 11:35 PM
05/05/14 11:35 PM
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So?

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: JoelW] #2271683
05/05/14 11:42 PM
05/05/14 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
So?

If you don't see the importance in modeling and understanding global systems, your high school didn't do their job.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: phantomFive] #2271695
05/06/14 01:10 AM
05/06/14 01:10 AM
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You just can't help yourself, can you? Let me remind you what this is about.

Originally Posted by Ebadlun
Fine, let's agree that every performance of everything by anyone is equally as good as any other performance of anything by anyone.

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: JoelW] #2271696
05/06/14 01:15 AM
05/06/14 01:15 AM
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My memory's pretty good, thanks.

Originally Posted by Ebadlun
Fine, let's agree that every performance of everything by anyone is equally as good as any other performance of anything by anyone.

Obviously that was said in jest and only someone as insane as John Cage would actually take this at face.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: phantomFive] #2271697
05/06/14 01:17 AM
05/06/14 01:17 AM
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That's not the point. It's your response that I'm addressing.

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: JoelW] #2271698
05/06/14 01:24 AM
05/06/14 01:24 AM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
That's not the point. It's your response that I'm addressing.

You aren't "addressing" anything. You're just doing what you do best and filling the thread with trivial bickering completely devoid of actual content.

Come out and say it, state your thoughts, make your case like an intelligible member of this forum like BruceD, Mark_C, Old Man, and others. Or, you can stick with quips for the sake of quips.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: Atrys] #2271701
05/06/14 01:36 AM
05/06/14 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Atrys
Originally Posted by Ebadlun
Fine, let's agree that every performance of everything by anyone is equally as good as any other performance of anything by anyone.

That's a bit extreme, I wouldn't say that. Opinions are nothing but opinions, but there can be popular and unpopular opinions.

You've yet to tell me why this matters in this context.

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: JoelW] #2271705
05/06/14 01:45 AM
05/06/14 01:45 AM
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Originally Posted by JoelW

You've yet to tell me why this matters in this context.

No I haven't, I'm sure if you really tried you could make the connection.

Popular opinion can affect many things, music appreciation included.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: phantomFive] #2271707
05/06/14 01:56 AM
05/06/14 01:56 AM
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You've explained the meaning of that statement in greater detail, but you haven't told me why it was relevant at all to your conversation.

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: JoelW] #2271708
05/06/14 02:02 AM
05/06/14 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by JoelW
You've explained the meaning of that statement in greater detail, but you haven't told me why it was relevant at all to your conversation.

I included it because it's true. You aren't making a case, you're just bickering around like a child. Make a case or stop for the sake of not polluting this thread with more quip-like bickering.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: Atrys] #2271710
05/06/14 02:06 AM
05/06/14 02:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Atrys
Originally Posted by JoelW
You've explained the meaning of that statement in greater detail, but you haven't told me why it was relevant at all to your conversation.

I included it because it's true.

Zebras are striped. That's also true, but irrelevant. You haven't told me why what you said was relevant to the conversation.

Quote
You aren't making a case, you're just bickering around like a child. Make a case or stop for the sake of not polluting this thread with more quip-like bickering.

A case? Why does everything have to be an argument?

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: phantomFive] #2271711
05/06/14 02:11 AM
05/06/14 02:11 AM
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Originally Posted by JoelW

You haven't told me why what you said was relevant to the conversation.

I seriously don't buy that you don't see how it was relevant. It's very obvious that you do.

Originally Posted by JoelW
..."A case? Why does everything have to be an argument?"...

Look at you, you can't even stay on the topic of your own tangent.

I'm afraid I won't go beyond this many degrees of separation from the OP. You're on your own with that one.


"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind."
R. W. Emerson
Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: Atrys] #2271714
05/06/14 02:16 AM
05/06/14 02:16 AM
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Atrys, seriously, what's your problem?

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: Ebadlun] #2271715
05/06/14 02:18 AM
05/06/14 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ebadlun
I'm listening to his Pathetique right now - the first movement passed off pretty well, he's evidently got the chops for it, though the rubato in the crotchet passages detracted from the excitement for me. But the Adagio is a hideous mess with no sensitivity or control of dynamic, a constantly wavering rhythm, and not even a basic ability to hit all the notes in a chord at the same time.


Harold Bauer only recorded the Moonlight and Appassionata Sonatas on disk, so if there is a recording of him playing the Pathetique Sonata, it would be a piano roll, and piano rolls are limited in dynamics and the rhythm is often distorted. The dynamics were not actually recorded; they were added to the recording after the notes were punched in. In order to differentiate the dynamics of two notes in the same register (I think the registers are notes 1-44 and 45-88) they would have to be offset slightly. This is in addition to breaking the hands, which was the style of the time. Bauer did that, but less so than many other pianists. Also, playback of piano rolls depends on the condition of the piano and player mechanism, which is very difficult to maintain.

So I suggest that you are not listening to a fair representation of his playing, if it is his playing at all. His recordings of the Brahms 3rd Sonata and the Brahms Quartet are still among the finest interpretations of those pieces ever recorded.


Semipro Tech
Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: phantomFive] #2271718
05/06/14 02:37 AM
05/06/14 02:37 AM
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Thank you phantomFive, for the excellent post. It was a very enjoyable read. I always enjoy reading about self taught pianists. I find it very inspiring. I had not heard about Harold Bauer before and I will look for his recordings to listen to.

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: phantomFive] #2271746
05/06/14 05:11 AM
05/06/14 05:11 AM
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I did indeed do Mr Bauer a disservice, and having listened to his fine Appassionata I apologise to his memory.

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: noobpianist90] #2271748
05/06/14 05:58 AM
05/06/14 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by noobpianist90
Thank you phantomFive, for the excellent post. It was a very enjoyable read. I always enjoy reading about self taught pianists. I find it very inspiring. I had not heard about Harold Bauer before and I will look for his recordings to listen to.


Just remember not to take self-mythologizing stories at face value, unless there's good corroborating evidence.

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: wr] #2271776
05/06/14 07:26 AM
05/06/14 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by wr
Originally Posted by noobpianist90
Thank you phantomFive, for the excellent post. It was a very enjoyable read. I always enjoy reading about self taught pianists. I find it very inspiring. I had not heard about Harold Bauer before and I will look for his recordings to listen to.
Just remember not to take self-mythologizing stories at face value, unless there's good corroborating evidence.
Perhaps.

Re: Teaching yourself to be a virtuoso: Harold Bauer [Re: Ebadlun] #2271855
05/06/14 11:15 AM
05/06/14 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ebadlun
I did indeed do Mr Bauer a disservice, and having listened to his fine Appassionata I apologise to his memory.

Wow, you are incredible, someone who apologizes on the internet. A rare citizen, you deserve an award.


Poetry is rhythm
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