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Joined: Jun 2013
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Dire Tonic, I more than agree with your reasoning. I also have the Vintage D ( a superb virtual piano), but was tempted to buy the RC to add to it for a different sound. But I decided against it for two reasons. First, my finances left me to make a decision between that and buying a decent set of headphones. My Sennheiser DP428's aren't the best, with zero bass and noticeable clipping on the top end. To replace them, I bought the Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro-80 cans (not the ones for drummers), and they should arrive in about a week. If they don't work out, I can refund them. I couldn't get a tryout refund with VI Labs. Secondly, like some others, I'm also a little concerned with the reported possible metallic sound in the mid-range of the RC, and would need a little more info on that before someday seriously considering the idea of buying it. I've downloaded and played the RC samples, and on my high-end Home Theater system the tonal range is great all across the board, but how it would sound recorded from my system might be another story, aside from the fact that I'm not exactly Horowitz.
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Joined: Apr 2014
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It sounds as though the Vintage D is already very good. Since it is working for my current project, I think that I will wait.
On the subject of headphones, I have KRK 8400s, which are decent. I think I might have stretched them out since I wear glasses (I can't invest in studio monitors now) but I hope that they are fine.
Back on the subject of the Ravenscroft: I really do not want the temptation of "new features, new product, MUST BUY" to fool me. Since I already have a piano library, perhaps I should try an instrument product that I do not already have, if I should purchase anything at all.
Anyway, I looking forward to future impressions, and maybe there will be a sale in the long run (or VI Labs will find a way to provide a trial version).
Last edited by synchronizer; 04/13/14 06:50 PM.
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 856
500 Post Club Member
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Yes I am on a budget, so I am reluctant to purchase the Ravenscroft. A couple of months ago, I purchased the VI Labs American Grand because I was writing a piece of music for a project (a student film at my university). I was able to justify the purchase because of the discount I received, but I found that the instrument also had a little bit of metallic mid-tone and it seemed as though ppp and fff were difficult to create. (It worked for the particular composition though, as it was lighter and jazzier). I fear that the Ravenscroft, although better in the sense that it has more samples, velocity layers, and features (resonance, pedals, etc.), may be the same. For this reason, I don't see myself purchasing the Ravenscroft unless I know for certain that it sounds better than my Vintage D sample library in the context of my projects. I would say if you found the VI Labs American "had a little bit of metallic mid-tone" and didn't like that, then you won't like the Ravenscroft. IMO, it is MUCH more metallic and harsh in the mid-range when playing mid-range chords. In fact it is by far the most metallic and harsh midrange of any of my pianos (see list in my signature). It is also much brighter than the Vintage D (you mentioned wanting a darker tone). By contrast the Vintage D is smooth and darker unless you turn up the Tone Colour control slightly (it is a sensitive control) in which case it becomes more aggressive (but more woody and not metallic) and brighter at higher velocities, and seems ideal for my pop, rock, and standards playing. The Vintage D has a very wide and harmonically more complex timbre dynamic range than the Ivory II American Concert D, which makes it perfect for my purposes. OTOH, the Ivory II American D would probably be my choice for classical music.
Macy
CVP-409GP, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Pianoteq, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad Pro/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 972
500 Post Club Member
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Yes I did get a good look at the electronics. I own a recording studio so I am a Gearhead from the word go. As I believe as has already been stated, the controller was a Kawai VPC1, However it was not stock. Turns out that Spreeman the creator and Master behind Ravenscroft had doctored the VPC1 to make the action as close as possible to the world class Acoustic he has created. The voice was resident on a MAC laptop, and they were using a MOTU Interface. The monitors were the Focal model 6BE with the matching sub. The way their booth was set up, the controller, rack, and monitors were visible from the side walkway. The monitors were set flat, so no EQ magic was used to massage the actual output. Frankly I was amazed at what I was hearing! I was there when Myron McKinley of Earth, Wind & Fire sat down at the controller and began to play. His eyes got big and then he started going to town. I heard him absolutely rave about the voice, and then he asked about the controller. He knew it had been doctored because he had played the stock VPC1 and he said there was no comparison. He wants that voice big time. Anyway sorry for getting wordy here. I had the privilege of recording a complete CD project on a Ravenscroft in 2012, and having done audio in every conceivable venue, and having mic'ed up more pianos than I can count going all the way back to 1972, the Ravenscroft just can't be beat. The great thing is now I don't have to shell out to rent a competing studio that already has a Ravenscroft, I am getting that Ravenscroft VI, and will retire my other VI Grands! Did anyone ever find out WHAT had been done to the VPC1 to make it feel as close as possible to the physical Ravenscroft ? & BTW I haven't seen any other mention of that "doctored" VPC1, so what gives ? Does Micheal Spreeman, or anyone at Ravenscroft, offer this sort of tuning on other VPC1s ?
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 303
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Joined: Oct 2012
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Yes I did get a good look at the electronics. I own a recording studio so I am a Gearhead from the word go. As I believe as has already been stated, the controller was a Kawai VPC1, However it was not stock. Turns out that Spreeman the creator and Master behind Ravenscroft had doctored the VPC1 to make the action as close as possible to the world class Acoustic he has created. The voice was resident on a MAC laptop, and they were using a MOTU Interface. The monitors were the Focal model 6BE with the matching sub. The way their booth was set up, the controller, rack, and monitors were visible from the side walkway. The monitors were set flat, so no EQ magic was used to massage the actual output. Frankly I was amazed at what I was hearing! I was there when Myron McKinley of Earth, Wind & Fire sat down at the controller and began to play. His eyes got big and then he started going to town. I heard him absolutely rave about the voice, and then he asked about the controller. He knew it had been doctored because he had played the stock VPC1 and he said there was no comparison. He wants that voice big time. Anyway sorry for getting wordy here. I had the privilege of recording a complete CD project on a Ravenscroft in 2012, and having done audio in every conceivable venue, and having mic'ed up more pianos than I can count going all the way back to 1972, the Ravenscroft just can't be beat. The great thing is now I don't have to shell out to rent a competing studio that already has a Ravenscroft, I am getting that Ravenscroft VI, and will retire my other VI Grands! Did anyone ever find out WHAT had been done to the VPC1 to make it feel as close as possible to the physical Ravenscroft ? & BTW I haven't seen any other mention of that "doctored" VPC1, so what gives ? Does Micheal Spreeman, or anyone at Ravenscroft, offer this sort of tuning on other VPC1s ? I'm working on putting together a video that will go into complete detail about that. I'll post the link here when its available (hopefully sometime later this week).
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 972
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 972 |
Yes I did get a good look at the electronics. I own a recording studio so I am a Gearhead from the word go. As I believe as has already been stated, the controller was a Kawai VPC1, However it was not stock. Turns out that Spreeman the creator and Master behind Ravenscroft had doctored the VPC1 to make the action as close as possible to the world class Acoustic he has created. The voice was resident on a MAC laptop, and they were using a MOTU Interface. The monitors were the Focal model 6BE with the matching sub. The way their booth was set up, the controller, rack, and monitors were visible from the side walkway. The monitors were set flat, so no EQ magic was used to massage the actual output. Frankly I was amazed at what I was hearing! I was there when Myron McKinley of Earth, Wind & Fire sat down at the controller and began to play. His eyes got big and then he started going to town. I heard him absolutely rave about the voice, and then he asked about the controller. He knew it had been doctored because he had played the stock VPC1 and he said there was no comparison. He wants that voice big time. Anyway sorry for getting wordy here. I had the privilege of recording a complete CD project on a Ravenscroft in 2012, and having done audio in every conceivable venue, and having mic'ed up more pianos than I can count going all the way back to 1972, the Ravenscroft just can't be beat. The great thing is now I don't have to shell out to rent a competing studio that already has a Ravenscroft, I am getting that Ravenscroft VI, and will retire my other VI Grands! Did anyone ever find out WHAT had been done to the VPC1 to make it feel as close as possible to the physical Ravenscroft ? & BTW I haven't seen any other mention of that "doctored" VPC1, so what gives ? Does Micheal Spreeman, or anyone at Ravenscroft, offer this sort of tuning on other VPC1s ? I'm working on putting together a video that will go into complete detail about that. I'll post the link here when its available (hopefully sometime later this week). Basically I am interested in what was done to (what corresponds to) the "action" and key parts of an acoustic piano. e.g. loosening up pivots, tightening up tolerances, evening out the balance between key weights... whatever_all_else and I am SURE these aren't the right terms (-^ The "mechanism" for want of a better term.
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Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,237
1000 Post Club Member
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I would be very interested in exactly what was done to the ravenscroft VPC as well.. Looking forward to the video 
Korg D1:AKG K240 MKII:KRK Rokit 6 gen 3 Pair Studio Monitors::Pianoteq Bechstein, Petrof, Grotrian, Steinway B, Steinway D,:Garritan CFX:Ravenscroft:Modern U:Galaxy Vintage D, Galaxy Bluthner Baby Grand,
Acoustics:
KAYSERBURG UH 132 Royal Vertical:
1934 Danemann Upright:
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,908
2000 Post Club Member
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2000 Post Club Member
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,908 |
This might be of interest to some. A member of the Casio music forums has made comparison recordings for the Ravenscroft piano sample and the Casio PX-5S. http://www.casiomusicforums.com/index.php?/topic/5797-an-interesting-comparison/He doesn't say which is which, and I honestly can't tell, though I believe it's the first one. For a better comparison a recording of the Ravenscroft, made by Digitalguy, with the same MIDI file, Purgatory Creek, can be found by clicking the link below. https://app.box.com/s/su6xk5yd5wq0ksodaygyIt's the first file in the list, as you can see from the title.
Me on YouTubeCasio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, some Sampletekks. Pianoteq 8 Std (Blüthner, SteinGraeber, NY/HB Steinway D).
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 972
500 Post Club Member
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500 Post Club Member
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 972 |
Yes I did get a good look at the electronics. I own a recording studio so I am a Gearhead from the word go. As I believe as has already been stated, the controller was a Kawai VPC1, However it was not stock. Turns out that Spreeman the creator and Master behind Ravenscroft had doctored the VPC1 to make the action as close as possible to the world class Acoustic he has created. The voice was resident on a MAC laptop, and they were using a MOTU Interface. The monitors were the Focal model 6BE with the matching sub. The way their booth was set up, the controller, rack, and monitors were visible from the side walkway. The monitors were set flat, so no EQ magic was used to massage the actual output. Frankly I was amazed at what I was hearing! I was there when Myron McKinley of Earth, Wind & Fire sat down at the controller and began to play. His eyes got big and then he started going to town. I heard him absolutely rave about the voice, and then he asked about the controller. He knew it had been doctored because he had played the stock VPC1 and he said there was no comparison. He wants that voice big time. Anyway sorry for getting wordy here. I had the privilege of recording a complete CD project on a Ravenscroft in 2012, and having done audio in every conceivable venue, and having mic'ed up more pianos than I can count going all the way back to 1972, the Ravenscroft just can't be beat. The great thing is now I don't have to shell out to rent a competing studio that already has a Ravenscroft, I am getting that Ravenscroft VI, and will retire my other VI Grands! Did anyone ever find out WHAT had been done to the VPC1 to make it feel as close as possible to the physical Ravenscroft ? & BTW I haven't seen any other mention of that "doctored" VPC1, so what gives ? Does Micheal Spreeman, or anyone at Ravenscroft, offer this sort of tuning on other VPC1s ? I'm working on putting together a video that will go into complete detail about that. I'll post the link here when its available (hopefully sometime later this week). It just occurred to me that a BETTER place for this would be almost any of the various VPC1 threads. Perhaps the info is already in one of those threads, I will search and post links if I find anything useful.
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 303
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Interesting. I actually did the same comparison (as I did with the Korg Kronos/Ravenscroft and the Nord Stage 2/Ravenscroft) with the PX5S and the Ravenscroft. Its in my usual video mode of presentation with great audio quality. You can check it out at this link: http://youtu.be/QAwzig1gi7c
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,908
2000 Post Club Member
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Thank you PianoManChuck, also saw your video on the Casio forums, very helpful. It's great that you always switch between the voices after a few seconds, short phrases are fresher in memory than longer ones.
Me on YouTubeCasio PX-5S. Garritan CFX, Production Grand 2 Gold, Concert Grand LE, AcousticSamples C7, some Sampletekks. Pianoteq 8 Std (Blüthner, SteinGraeber, NY/HB Steinway D).
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 303
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For those interested in how the Kawai VPC1 was modified... part of this video demonstrates what's done by Ravenworks Design (the new, digital division of Ravenworks Piano). The video actually discusses Ravenscroft at NAMM 2014, talks about the acoustic model 275 (9' concert grand), talks about Ravenscroft by VI Labs, talks about the action on both the acoustic and digital (VPC1) keys. Its a bit lengthy, but for those interested solely in the VPC1 modification, skip to 11:30 in the video, then come back and watch the entire video some time at your leisure. Here's the link: http://youtu.be/BUC0xU7OX54Enjoy.
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,756
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That's fascinating - thanks for your video link, PianoManChuck. The work done on the VPC reminds me of what some folk get up to with (cheap) Chinese condenser microphones from companies like MXL etc. They strip out some standard parts and insert high spec ones: capsule, capacitors, maybe transistors. And you end up with a U87 for under 300 dollars - that sort of thing. There's a lot of it about....they call it modding. But I think I'll stick with the standard stuff. It's good enough for what I want at the moment!
Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI
Reaper / Native Instruments K9 ult / ESQL MOR2 Symph Orchestra & Choirs / Lucato & Parravicini , trumpets & saxes / Garritan CFX lite / Production Voices C7 & Steinway D compact
Focusrite Saffire 24 / W7, i7 4770, 16GB / MXL V67g / Yamaha HS7s / HD598
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,746
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Very interesting stuff about the VPC1 modifications. I am very curious now to find out what the modified action feels like.
Thanks for sharing!
- Schimmel Upright
- Kawai VPC-1 with Pianoteq
Any issues or concerns are piped to /dev/null
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Joined: Jan 2014
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I've been trying for awhile to find a way to play soft keys on my P105 and RC. I just saw this video of TKeys by VI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd3JRyd9FCAI'm starting to learn crescendo and decrescendo and it's near impossibl. There is the option of "velocity threshold" that seems to do just this. But with RC and the UVI, I don't see this option. Anyone know if this can be done? Also, I asked awhile ago, but can't find the reply. Can someone tell me again how to backup the settings? Thanks! Chris
Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.
New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.
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There is the option of "velocity threshold" that seems to do just this. But with RC and the UVI, I don't see this option. Anyone know if this can be done?
If you "open midi panel", using the icon on the right side between the tuning fork and the gear ... you will see a velocity curve. That is a midi signal IN/OUT curve. You can bend that curve so that the beginning of the curve lies flat on the bottom at the beginning. That will cause MIDI IN values to result in ZERO MIDI OUT signals ... which means you will not generate a sound when you press a key at those low velocities. This might do what you wish.
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
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There is the option of "velocity threshold" that seems to do just this. But with RC and the UVI, I don't see this option. Anyone know if this can be done?
If you "open midi panel", using the icon on the right side between the tuning fork and the gear ... you will see a velocity curve. That is a midi signal IN/OUT curve. You can bend that curve so that the beginning of the curve lies flat on the bottom at the beginning. That will cause MIDI IN values to result in ZERO MIDI OUT signals ... which means you will not generate a sound when you press a key at those low velocities. This might do what you wish. Don, I've been out of the state so I can't try this yet. I did play around with this and didn't think it made a difference. I'll go back and play again with the v. curve. Thanks for the help! Chris
Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.
New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,894
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Don, I've been out of the state so I can't try this yet. I did play around with this and didn't think it made a difference. I'll go back and play again with the v. curve. Thanks for the help!
Chris It absolutely works. Bend it down as far as you can and you will certainly see a difference.
Don
Kawai MP7SE, On Stage KS7350 keyboard stand, KRK Classic 5 powered monitors, SennHeiser HD 559 Headphones
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I got it to work, Thank You dmd!
Chris
Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.
New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.
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Joined: Mar 2009
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I purchased this library at the pre-release price and I am willing to sell it. If anyone is interested, please send me a PM.
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