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Kawai MP11 - possible key sustain issue #2268955
04/30/14 02:01 AM
04/30/14 02:01 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2
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goosee Offline OP
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goosee  Offline OP
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Hello everyone

I'm quite new to this, so apologies if I get some of my terminology a bit mixed.

I've just received a new MP11 - actually my second unit, as the first arrived with a bunch of sticking keys (I expect caused by a few dings in transit). I set up the new piano last night and tested each key in turn.

This may sound a bit simplistic, but my relatively basic understanding of piano mechanics is that if a key is played 'staccato' the note will ring only for as long as the key is 'pressed'. When the key is released, the note (sound) will stop. On my MP11 every key, from the lowest C up to F#6 behaves in this way. However, for every key thereafter - G6 up to C8 (white and black) the note will ring on (as if sustained), even once the key has returned to its 'rest' position.

This is the case regardless of the velocity of the key strike and for every piano model and variation on the unit.

Is this normal!?

I originally thought this may be a natural(-ly modelled) acoustic phenomenon, but there seems to be a very distinct difference in acoustic behaviour between the keys below G6 and those above it. Would anyone else with an MP11 mind testing this on their unit?

Happy to clarify any of this further if more detail is needed.

Many thanks for your advice.

Last edited by goosee; 04/30/14 02:02 AM.
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Re: Kawai MP11 - possible key sustain issue [Re: goosee] #2268960
04/30/14 02:15 AM
04/30/14 02:15 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,291
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maurus Offline
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Originally Posted by goosee

Is this normal!?

Yes.
Ever played an acoustic piano? The highest notes are always undamped - they have a shorter decay anyway, and leaving the strings free to vibrate produces resonances with the lower keys that contribute significantly to shaping the tone. Your DP functions all right.

Re: Kawai MP11 - possible key sustain issue [Re: goosee] #2268963
04/30/14 02:24 AM
04/30/14 02:24 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,363
Hamamatsu, Japan
Kawai James Offline
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Kawai James  Offline
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Hamamatsu, Japan
Hello goosee, welcome to the forum.

Congrats on your MP11 - it's unfortunate that the first unit was damaged during shipping.

Originally Posted by goosee
However, for every key thereafter - G6 up to C8 (white and black) the note will ring on (as if sustained), even once the key has returned to its 'rest' position.
...
Is this normal!?


Yes, this is the correct behaviour.

An acoustic piano does not have any dampers for the topmost 1 1/2 octaves or so, therefore these treble notes will always ring out with full sustain. Kawai digital pianos recreate this phenomenon with the topmost 18 notes.

This characteristic is actually explained in the 'Troubleshooting' pages of Kawai's home-oriented DP manuals, however the MP documentation does not include these sections.

Kind regards,
James
x


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 fan & occasional rare groove player.
Re: Kawai MP11 - possible key sustain issue [Re: goosee] #2268966
04/30/14 02:34 AM
04/30/14 02:34 AM
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2
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goosee Offline OP
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Hi both

Thank you very much for your replies - this is great to know, but I feel like a right berk for asking in the first place! haha

As I said, I'm quite new to these specifics. I've dabbled with keyboards for years, but never to the extent that I've thought too much about what's going on - negligent, I know!

This is therefore step one on my new journey about which I'm very excited.

Thanks again.

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Re: Kawai MP11 - possible key sustain issue [Re: goosee] #2269098
04/30/14 12:51 PM
04/30/14 12:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,602
Portugal
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toddy Offline
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Portugal
Probably this is a feature of pianos that even some pianists are unaware of - or only vaguely aware of. It is not surprising that people giving a rigorous initial test to their newly arrived digital piano can be concerned that there's a problem with the instrument.

There may even be an option on some DPs or software pianos to have the damper on all notes right to the top, even though this is not how acoustic pianos behave.


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Re: Kawai MP11 - possible key sustain issue [Re: toddy] #2269108
04/30/14 01:16 PM
04/30/14 01:16 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 276
UK
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Enthusiast Offline
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UK
Not owning an acoustic and not having much experience this was something I was unaware of until I first noticed it on an upright I used in a practice room a while back. I wondered if that was normal or there was something wrong with that upright. I later asked my teacher who explained that it was normal and why. When I next got a chance to play on a grand I looked inside to see how all this works. At the bass end the dapmpers are bigger and the stings thicker leading to heavier keys at that end and they get gradually smaller/thinner as you move up so the keys get lighter. The sustain pedal lifts the dampers off the keys allowing them them to vibrate freely. At the other end of the keybed there are no dampers which is why those keys continue to ring as if you had the pedal down.

I like to see these aspects done right on a DP so I look out for them.

Re: Kawai MP11 - possible key sustain issue [Re: toddy] #2269117
04/30/14 01:28 PM
04/30/14 01:28 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,291
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maurus Offline
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maurus  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,291
Originally Posted by toddy
Probably this is a feature of pianos that even some pianists are unaware of - or only vaguely aware of.

No, toddy. Everyone who has regularly played on an acoustic piano for some time is well aware of this. In fact everyone who has just once in her or his life played a simple scale to the upper end of the keyboard knows.

Re: Kawai MP11 - possible key sustain issue [Re: maurus] #2269281
04/30/14 07:51 PM
04/30/14 07:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,394
Boynton Beach, FL
Morodiene Offline
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Boynton Beach, FL
Originally Posted by maurus
Originally Posted by toddy
Probably this is a feature of pianos that even some pianists are unaware of - or only vaguely aware of.

No, toddy. Everyone who has regularly played on an acoustic piano for some time is well aware of this. In fact everyone who has just once in her or his life played a simple scale to the upper end of the keyboard knows.


There was an instance in the Ruins de chateau I was working on for the Tchaikovsky recital on ABF, where there this flourish of notes form low to high. It's too mushy to just pedal the whole thing, but I really wanted those top notes to ring out, so I pedaled the beginning and then as I got higher just relied upon the lack of dampers to keep it ringing. I was able to do this on my Petrof, and then moved to the Mp11 and it did the same thing. I was pleasantly surprised by this.


private piano/voice teacher FT

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