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#2269181 - 04/30/14 04:28 PM What is the rest position of a hammer really?  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 8
malte Offline
Junior Member
malte  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 8
If I strike a key so that the hammer checks and then release, then depending on how quickly I release the rest position of the hammer fluctuates by sometimes 2mm. I'm sure that the repetition spring is strong enough, although increasing its strength to unreasonable levels reduces the problem to less that 1mm fluctuation. Is this normal? If yes, how do I set the hammer height? If not, what else could cause this problem?

Best wishes!

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#2269224 - 04/30/14 05:49 PM Re: What is the rest position of a hammer really? [Re: malte]  
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,089
Gene Nelson Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Gene Nelson  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,089
Old Hangtown California
Wink the jacks while key is in the rest position. Should be just enough lost motion to allow the jack to reset when key is at rest and jack tail is slowly released. Don't let this lost motion get excessive.


RPT
PTG Member
#2269231 - 04/30/14 05:57 PM Re: What is the rest position of a hammer really? [Re: malte]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
A454.7 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A454.7  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
Manywheres
...wait, what now? Are you talking about an upright, or a grand?

It sounds like a grand...with the repetition lever set too high (i.e., in relation to the jack), and an inconsistent spring tension among the wippens. More info please...


Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com
#2269291 - 04/30/14 08:12 PM Re: What is the rest position of a hammer really? [Re: malte]  
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Mark Cerisano Offline
3000 Post Club Member
Mark Cerisano  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 3,087
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Why is this a problem?


Mark Cerisano, RPT, B.Sc.(Mech.Eng), Dip.Ed.(Music)
www.howtotunepianos.com
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#2269331 - 04/30/14 09:33 PM Re: What is the rest position of a hammer really? [Re: malte]  
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 186
BenP Offline
Full Member
BenP  Offline
Full Member

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 186
South Jersey
There will always be some minimal variance in both the checking position and the rest position based on how hard you strike the key and how quickly you release it. I'm with Mark C - why is it a problem?

Last edited by BenP; 04/30/14 09:34 PM.

Ben Patterson, RPT
South Jersey Piano Service, LLC
www.sjpianoservice.com
#2269430 - 05/01/14 03:41 AM Re: What is the rest position of a hammer really? [Re: malte]  
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 8
malte Offline
Junior Member
malte  Offline
Junior Member

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 8
Thank you for taking the time and: sorry, its a grand piano. Lost motion should be ok. If I slowly depress the jack tenders, the hammer barely moves. Sometimes I have the feeling that some hammers don't move up as much as they move down when I release the jack again.

This is a problem when setting hammer height. The hammer blow distance is, by definition, the distance between the hammer tips at rest position and the strings. But in my case, hammer height fluctuates depending on how I struck the keys prior to regulation...

@A443: I don't understand. How would the hammer height of a particular hammer be affected by different spring tension on the adjacent wippens?

#2269444 - 05/01/14 04:45 AM Re: What is the rest position of a hammer really? [Re: malte]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
A454.7 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A454.7  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
Manywheres
no, not the adjacent wippen...

If your repetition spring is inconsistent (i.e., meaning, mainly weak) and the leaver is set too high, then you would get the situation that you are describing.

There could also be too much friction somewhere in the system.


Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com
#2269446 - 05/01/14 04:52 AM Re: What is the rest position of a hammer really? [Re: malte]  
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
A454.7 Offline
1000 Post Club Member
A454.7  Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,577
Manywheres
regardless, no: it is not normal. You will find a problem somewhere

Check the hammer flange pining to see if it is too tight...


Masters degree in piano technology, +factory(s) training, etc., blah, blah, yada, yada, yada...[uncensored break-out in song]..."it don't mean a thing, if you aint got that swing."
--Klavierbaukuenstler des Erwachens--
Email: klavierbaukuenstler@gmail.com
#2269496 - 05/01/14 07:34 AM Re: What is the rest position of a hammer really? [Re: malte]  
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
Olek Offline
9000 Post Club Member
Olek  Offline
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 9,230
France
Friction plus whippen assist springs can easily create some unstable hammer rest posture.

The knuckle is supported by the lever and the jack, then the position of the jack and its shape on its top, can influence the hammer rest much.



Professional of the profession.
Foo Foo specialist
I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!

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