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Originally Posted by ezpiano.org
Originally Posted by KS
Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way?


I am sure those who created the curriculum think it is important.

Ah, but I am asking you guys here as musicians and teachers. smile What are your own thoughts?

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Originally Posted by AZNpiano
It's not a suspension. There would need to be a tie from the previous chord, or at least the same note from the previous chord being replayed on the current chord, followed by a stepwise descent.

Doesn't the fact that there are half notes underneath that are held while the suspension resolves itself count?


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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by ezpiano.org
Originally Posted by KS
Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way?


I am sure those who created the curriculum think it is important.

Ah, but I am asking you guys here as musicians and teachers. smile What are your own thoughts?


I like the way WMTA handles their theory tests. They do their best to put things in there with obvious answers, or rather, obvious examples of the thing they are testing. It's not trying to be obscure or tricky. It sounds like we are in a bit of a disagreement as to what it is, so I'm curious what the answer key says it is, and why they felt this was a good example of one.


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If the answer key says anything other than accented passing tone, the answer key is wrong.


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Just hear back from CM chair, she said the answer key is appoggiatura.


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Originally Posted by ezpiano.org
Just hear back from CM chair, she said the answer key is appoggiatura.

Do I get a prize? laugh
Originally Posted by keystring
]here is also an appoggiatura feel to it - this heavy lean into the Eb which then resolves to the Db which is part of the Bbm chord....

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Hahaha....


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Originally Posted by ezpiano.org
Just hear back from CM chair, she said the answer key is appoggiatura.
Well.. CM is wrong. Tell them to call me if you want! grin

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I can see why they would say it's an appoggiatura - an unprepared dissonance which resolves by step. But they should also have accepted accented passing-note as, if you like, a more specific kind of appoggiatura. It certainly is not a suspension where the dissonant note is held over from the previous chord, in which it is a harmony-note, and then resolved by step.


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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by ezpiano.org
Originally Posted by KS
Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way?


I am sure those who created the curriculum think it is important.

Ah, but I am asking you guys here as musicians and teachers. smile What are your own thoughts?


Since you asked:

. . . "Theory" is the grammar of music.

In the same way that you can speak, without "knowing" grammar, you can write (and play) music without "knowing" theory.

But when you _do_ know it, it puts what you're doing into a useful structure. It can stop you from making bad choices, and help you make good ones.

And sometimes, you break the rules, because you _really_ like the sound.

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Originally Posted by drumour
I can see why they would say it's an appoggiatura - an unprepared dissonance which resolves by step. But they should also have accepted accented passing-note as, if you like, a more specific kind of appoggiatura. It certainly is not a suspension where the dissonant note is held over from the previous chord, in which it is a harmony-note, and then resolved by step.


John


Thanks for the explanation. smile


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Originally Posted by keystring
Originally Posted by ezpiano.org
Originally Posted by KS
Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way?


I am sure those who created the curriculum think it is important.

Ah, but I am asking you guys here as musicians and teachers. smile What are your own thoughts?


I think there is more point to it when the example is less obscure.

It is an appoggiatura, but that's not exactly a mainstream usage for the music I run into or am interested in. Isn't the term and usage limited to a fairly short time period?


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At the moment in question you have, for a moment, and accented, a Bbsus chord. It resolves IMMEDIATELY to a Bm chord.

So there IS a suspension feel, but as others have mentioned, a suspension in traditional analysis normally has the suspension start early and is tied over.

Appoggiatura is not the best answer because of what goes before.

I have to agree with those who said accented passing tone. Anyone who does not accept that as a superior answer has no business writing these tests. frown

And I'm assuming it is "multiple guess".

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I didn't use "sus" because in those kinds of exams it's not used or recognized, and I found quite a few classically trained people don't seem to be familiar with it. But sus is exactly what it is. Thank you for pointing that out, Gary.

Quote
... a suspension in traditional analysis normally has the suspension start early and is tied over.

I'm tempted to highlight the word "traditional" because that is the problem with these kinds of exercises. Btw this is not my original idea; it was pointed out to me a few years ago, and since then I see the point. In traditional music theory we are given an artificial model which is based on a simplified version of Baroque music frozen in time. (Baroque itself evolved).

When preparing for these kinds of exams (or preparing the student for this kind of exam) we have to keep in mind "what the examiner wants" and "what slot to put things into". If I were writing the exam I would write in "accented passing tone". But I would hope that my teacher would let me understand what can actually be heard in the music, which is beyond these slots. (Or if I were teaching it, to do that.) That is the reason why I asked the question that I did earlier. smile

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As Polyphonist has said a few times already it's an accented passing tone. That's all it is. No ambiguity. No uncertainty .. Nothing. Just accented passing tone.

What makes this stuff seem obscure - and perhaps even entirely useless - is the brevity of the reply from the so-called chair who said the answer key says 'blah-blah-blah. If all they're testing is the ability to label something in reference to an answer key THAT's the problem.




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Mark, I said that as well...

But in all honesty, if we look at the music itself, there's a bit of an ambiguity going on there... Yes, that particular note is an accented passing note, only that the previous note (the G) comes in as an 8th, and not in a "straight", diatonic line with the rest of the previous notes. In fact it is a sequence, which is not diatonic that comes into play from the previous bar.

So, while I'm the one who mentioned the accented passing note, I am questioning, in a more general sense, the use of such a question in such a difficult passage.

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Sorry Nicholas!

What I should have said is -

"As Nicholas and Polyphonist have said several times in this thread it's an accented passing tone."

I agree with you on the larger context. For me anytime the reply comes back in the form of " that's the answer on the sheet," well that's a problem. So the use of the question as you point out should be questioned (is questionable).

But, anyway, you did say pretty much all of this earlier in the discussion!

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Originally Posted by Nikolas
So, while I'm the one who mentioned the accented passing note, I am questioning, in a more general sense, the use of such a question in such a difficult passage.


Any test question that can generate this much discussion (and at least mild disagreement) from experienced teachers and interested amateurs would seem to be a bad question to ask a young student.


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Originally Posted by Mark Polishook
Sorry Nicholas!

What I should have said is -

"As Nicholas and Polyphonist have said several times in this thread it's an accented passing tone."

I agree with you on the larger context. For me anytime the reply comes back in the form of " that's the answer on the sheet," well that's a problem. So the use of the question as you point out should be questioned (is questionable).

But, anyway, you did say pretty much all of this earlier in the discussion!

Not to mention that "accented passing tone" is not what they wanted according to their answer key - it was appoggiatura. frown

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You know...

Now there's a different issue at hand:

a. How to persuade CM to take on someone else to write the tests?
b. If the above doesn't happen (cause I've been hearing stories about CM for quite some time now), how to persuade the parents to NOT ask for CM testing... hmmm...

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