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#2263930 - 04/19/14 02:11 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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dire tonic Offline
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Originally Posted by kent2012
I cannot read as yet, even just dabbling with the intro you guys don't think it starts off with the a flat minor?
or did you mostly suggest a minor as it's easier for someone like me to play?

- yes, for a beginner. Also, if you're picking out the melody by trial and error "only white notes" means you've only got 7 instead of 12 to pick from.

Quote

Intro:
Ab, Ab chord 1st inversion,Ab,Eb, Ab chord,b,Gb and then not sure smirk

The first 4 intro chords are
G#m, B, F#, G#m

- best to think of it in G#m rather than Abm or your second chord becomes Cb - a bit unwieldy.

Quote
Will keep at it as I'm sure this is better in the long run for me than Synthesia frown

- definitely!

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#2263996 - 04/19/14 08:35 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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Originally Posted by kent2012
Thanks dire,poly,astro...I've never done this before so it may take a while, I've only ever learned to play songs from Synthesia and tutorials off youtube :S

I can probably figure out the single notes on the RH but how do you determine what notes are being played on the right hand when it sounds like more than one note is being played? as it sounds (to me anyway) that some parts of the melody more than one note is being played together or is that from the left?


Well - you're right! That can be tough! You'll be developing your ear as you do this and you'll improve. When chords are playing in the right hand, you'll have to play it over and over until you're pretty sure which notes are being sounded. And, as long as you're close, you're probably good!

When you start putting the hands together, you may find a few surprises. Like some notes that need to be played by the right hand that you can't handle with the left. In those situations, add 'em in or forget 'em!

I have used this method to write arrangements of symphonic works and some movie scores. It's tedious but do-able. And you end up as The Only Person On The Planet who has the piano music for that work, which is neat.

***

By the way, on that score that you like, I would skip the intro for awhile and go straight to the main song. Up to you, of course.

Last edited by AZ_Astro; 04/19/14 08:37 AM.

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#2264893 - 04/21/14 08:55 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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Originally Posted by kent2012

I can probably figure out the single notes on the RH but how do you determine what notes are being played on the right hand when it sounds like more than one note is being played?


You need the chords. The Arpegios in the LH and any harmony to the melody in the RH will typically follow the chords. dire tonic has provided the intro chords in G#m. What key are you going to learn this in now?

If you are determined to learn this in G#m, after you have it figured out, another good exercise may be to shift everything up one semi-tone to be in Am. Then you can decide where you like to play it. In performance, no one will notice the difference.

I agree with AZ Astro to skip the intro for now and cut to the chase.

#2265723 - 04/23/14 06:24 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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ok so I think I've got the entire RH down pat, not off by heart but I know what notes are being played after doing plenty of trial and error.
What I still can't figure out are the arpeggios on the left...
Even something like the intro when the left begins, would you agree it is G#,D#,G#,B, back toG#,D#? then it moves to G#,D#,G#,A#,B,D#?

So far I think the chords are G#mior,F# major, C#minor?

How do you guys figure out the left when a lot of the times what the right is playing seems to drown out the left. It's very hard to tune in sometimes, but I guess this is normal for a newbie....

Last edited by kent2012; 04/23/14 07:13 AM.
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#2265726 - 04/23/14 06:38 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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EM Deeka Offline
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Originally Posted by kent2012
...

How do you guys figure out the left when a lot of the times what the right is playing seems to drown out the left. It's very hard to tune in sometimes, but I guess this is normal for a newbie....


Have you looked at Transcribe Transcribe! is the world's leading software for helping musicians to work out music from recordings. They have a 30 day free trial.

#2265733 - 04/23/14 07:08 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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Seeing all these sharps, I'm convinced we are not in Am smile .

The chords will disclose what is really happening (LH & RH) behind all the clutter.

The reason I suggested you get the chords, is that you will still need to learn the piece and figure out much of the fancy work (as you are doing) by ear. But at least you will have the base.

I've been playing for many years and still cheat like crazy. If I can have the chords vs. trying to figure out entirely by ear, I'll take them. If I can't get them easily, I may watch the hands of someone in a YouTube video, if I can't figure them out on my own.

Up to you though.

Poly said we only have 4 chords in the entire piece. So, it shouldn't be too tough to get them all charted. You already have them for the intro. Sorry, I'm not the best person to help you with this. I'll try if no one else comes to the rescue.

G#, C#, G#, B, back to G#, C# - The C# looks suspect to me if we are on G#m here, unless just a passing. But I have not gone back to have a listen.

I'll see where you are with this tonight and take closer look if no further.




#2265735 - 04/23/14 07:14 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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Oh crap that was supposed to be D#! so basically arpeggio'ing the G#minor chord :\


#2265738 - 04/23/14 07:22 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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Yes.
The D# makes more sense; All these notes make total sense for G#m. Even if you do not play them in the same order, it will still be a G#m and will sound great.

I'm a little confused of what you are saying happens next, but will take closer look later. Remember, your opening intro chords are ...

"The first 4 intro chords are
G#m, B, F#, G#m"


#2265742 - 04/23/14 07:33 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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That transcribe program is pretty cool EM
thanks a lot

#2265750 - 04/23/14 07:53 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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Originally Posted by kent2012
Oh crap that was supposed to be D#! so basically arpeggio'ing the G#minor chord :\

That's right!

You've been reminded of the first 4 chords so the next one will be B. He plays another arpeggio on the B but it's very slightly different from the G#m one. He uses the same pattern as the B arppegio for 3rd chord which is on F#. After that you'll have to deal with some irregularity because he plays the G#m for 2 bars then introduces another chord.

Anyway, Kent, well done! You took some initiative and got stuck into trying to figure it out. Usually with these threads, those looking for clues seem to be either too lazy to follow up or not yet able to do so. I'd be interested to know if 'transcribe' helps you.

#2265758 - 04/23/14 08:41 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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Thanks dire,
How did you guys know that the 2nd chord is B? just by listening to it? or is that what follows G#m in a lot of cases? same question goes for F# smirk

Is there a name for the style the arpeggios are being played in? if just G#,D#,G# was being played is that called playing the 5ths?
Will arpeggios ONLY cover what is it the scale of the Chord being played?

#2265766 - 04/23/14 08:56 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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Originally Posted by kent2012
Thanks dire,
How did you guys know that the 2nd chord is B? just by listening to it? or is that what follows G#m in a lot of cases? same question goes for F# smirk


B is one of quite a few chords that would have sounded ok but would have taken the idea in a different direction. Yes, I hear the B chord clearly but your guess of G#m (repeating the first chord) isn't so far off the mark - there's only one note difference between the two triads and the G#m is the relative minor of the B major - they're close.

Quote
Is there a name for the style the arpeggios are being played in? if just G#,D#,G# was being played is that called playing the 5ths?

There's not a name as such. It wouldn't be worth naming the entire pattern since so many small variants exist - you might just as well name the notes or write them on the stave. Fair to say "roots and 5ths" is meaningful as a musical cliché - you'll hear it such a lot in the LH - but there's usually more detail required.

Quote

Will arpeggios ONLY cover what is it the scale of the Chord being played?

If I've understood your question, the LH notes for the B chord might go some way to answering it.

#2265770 - 04/23/14 09:06 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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damn another typo sorry I meant to say Will arpeggios ONLY cover what is in the scale of the Chord being played?
so for e.g if I wanted to play a G#m arpeggio there shouldn't be a C or a D being played within it right?
A bit off topic but I just wanted to clear that up while I was on it smirk



Thanks for your replies

#2265772 - 04/23/14 09:11 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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dire tonic Offline
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Originally Posted by kent2012
damn another typo sorry I meant to say Will arpeggios ONLY cover what is in the scale of the Chord being played?
so for e.g if I wanted to play a G#m arpeggio there shouldn't be a C or a D being played within it right?
A bit off topic but I just wanted to clear that up while I was on it smirk


As generalisations go, you're on safe ground.

The C would be most unwelcome in G#m but you'd get away with the D nat. in a 'blue' setting - but it's completely different music!


#2265789 - 04/23/14 09:52 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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ok Thanks for clearing that up
So when I play the opening G#m what is the correct fingering? G#,D#,G#, B, back to G#,D#
5 2 1 hand shifts1 3 1 ?


#2265791 - 04/23/14 10:01 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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- I wouldn't bother with the thumb under for that shape, just span it pinky to thumb... 5 3 2 1 2 3 5

#2266310 - 04/24/14 06:35 AM Re: Piano song requests? [Re: kent2012]  
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Originally Posted by dire tonic

I'll chuck in an initial hint for the short section starting at 1.27 - probably the most approachable for a beginner to try and figure out. It's in 3/4 time. Your mission, Kent, is to figure out the RH - ...

Here's the LH which plays 1/8 notes. I've only written out the first pattern because all the others are exactly the same white note pattern using the new first note for each line.

A C E C E C ....then, same pattern starting on:-
D - then, ....starting on
G ..then,.....starting on
A...
A...
F...
G...
A...
A..(different pattern here!)


As you continue working on this Kent, please keep in mind that the above is still valid and will help you. Simply shift everything down 1 semi-tone to be in G#m.

A becomes G#, C becomes B, E becomes D# etc.

Suggest, write it all out for yourself and give it a go, if you have not already, or when you get to this part.

There is nothing wrong with skipping around in the piece (actually smart idea) as you learn it and put it all back together later.




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