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Originally Posted by joe80
I think that the C is a far superior model to the B, in fact I've never really liked the B all that much, and for the slight difference in size, you'd think that more people would want a C. I guess though it's not the slight difference in size but the large difference in price that's the problem!

I remember one model C in the RSAMD in Glasgow that was beautiful until for some reason it was relegated to a practice room and a D was put in its place in the small recital hall. The piano ceased to be well maintained and very quickly sounded like a box of nails. I don't know where it is now but it was a 1989 model.

I've played a few in Germany where they seem to be a bit more popular. Steinway Hall in London doesn't even stock them, but they did rebuild one for Haddo House Opera in Aberdeen recently.

I sometimes wonder if the C is a better option for smaller halls, because the automatic choice of the D is sometimes overpowering. In fact I've been in attendance at the Wigmore Hall and spent time wishing that the concert was over because the piano was just too loud, and I was in the back row.

From a musical perspective I'm one of the few who would, if pushed to choose, stop the production of the B but keep the A and C.


My own theory on this was that the height of NYC elevator doors pretty much excluded the "C" from a larger market. The B fits perfectly when you keyboard a piano. The A is a nicer scale design than the B (my own opinion, yes without the bass the B provides), but displaced the B sales so they stopped producing the A. Now, with only high net worth people buying new Steinways the A no longer "competes" in the same way.

Still I don't know how many "C"s they could sell when you exclude city dwellers.


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Interesting theory.


Marty in Minnesota

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I've heard the elevator theory espoused as one (not the only) reason Mason & Hamlin went from a 9'4" concert grand to a 9'0". Not residential elevators, but those in concert halls. I have no idea of the accuracy of that notion. Of course, that was back in the early 20th century.

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Originally Posted by Grotriman
Originally Posted by joe80
I think that the C is a far superior model to the B, in fact I've never really liked the B all that much, and for the slight difference in size, you'd think that more people would want a C. I guess though it's not the slight difference in size but the large difference in price that's the problem!

I remember one model C in the RSAMD in Glasgow that was beautiful until for some reason it was relegated to a practice room and a D was put in its place in the small recital hall. The piano ceased to be well maintained and very quickly sounded like a box of nails. I don't know where it is now but it was a 1989 model.

I've played a few in Germany where they seem to be a bit more popular. Steinway Hall in London doesn't even stock them, but they did rebuild one for Haddo House Opera in Aberdeen recently.

I sometimes wonder if the C is a better option for smaller halls, because the automatic choice of the D is sometimes overpowering. In fact I've been in attendance at the Wigmore Hall and spent time wishing that the concert was over because the piano was just too loud, and I was in the back row.

From a musical perspective I'm one of the few who would, if pushed to choose, stop the production of the B but keep the A and C.


My own theory on this was that the height of NYC elevator doors pretty much excluded the "C" from a larger market. The B fits perfectly when you keyboard a piano. The A is a nicer scale design than the B (my own opinion, yes without the bass the B provides), but displaced the B sales so they stopped producing the A. Now, with only high net worth people buying new Steinways the A no longer "competes" in the same way.

Still I don't know how many "C"s they could sell when you exclude city dwellers.


In fact I would take your evaluation further (between the model A and B) and say that the imbalance of the B is not worth the extra bass, which to my ear sounds like excessive growl. Mind you some people like that! I always found that the B sounded a bit like a speaker box, whereas the A and C are far more musical instruments.

I don't know about elevators, because the Yamaha C7 (not the C6) retains an enduring popularity.


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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
In the past few years, S&S-NY has put the 'L' in the storeroom and re-issued the 'O'. That was followed by the NY rebirth of the 'A'. Has anyone heard anything about Astoria (re)introducing the 'C'? That would create the identical lineup as Hamburg.


I've been wishing they'd do this, for years. Without doing so, they've basically given Yamaha an entire segment of the market... those who want something inbetween a B and a D. Frankly, I don't really care for the B, most of the time.

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I wonder if Astoria still has the plate forms and rim templates still available?

All we'd need is about 150 of us to place special orders, and voilà ...

(or not)


Marty in Minnesota

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"the imbalance of the B is not worth the extra bass, which to my ear sounds like excessive growl"

The more I listen, observe and meditate, the more I think that pianist should not expect too much about piano, but he should adjust to take the best of it, in case of excessive growl then play bass softer. This is the whole osmosis of pianist, piano, environment. My wife produces good sound on the small upright Yamaha, but struggles to play well on the Grotrian 192 (because she is busy and her fingers are weak), a friend came and pulled the best of the Grotrian. A lot of time I see that a small piano in a small room sounds much better than a bigger piano.

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The B and D are such "known quantities" here in the States that a re-introduced C would be fighting with them for attention. The B has a firm base of loyal professional pianists who own them.

I am not crazy about the B (though I have heard a few good ones) and am intrigued by the few Cs I have played.

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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
I wonder if Astoria still has the plate forms and rim templates still available?


If not, just ship the finished pianos from Hamburg. It would be more cost effective than tooling up again.



-- J.S.

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Originally Posted by hoola
"the imbalance of the B is not worth the extra bass, which to my ear sounds like excessive growl"

The more I listen, observe and meditate, the more I think that pianist should not expect too much about piano, but he should adjust to take the best of it, in case of excessive growl then play bass softer. This is the whole osmosis of pianist, piano, environment. My wife produces good sound on the small upright Yamaha, but struggles to play well on the Grotrian 192 (because she is busy and her fingers are weak), a friend came and pulled the best of the Grotrian. A lot of time I see that a small piano in a small room sounds much better than a bigger piano.



All well and true, but I'm basing my opinion on having played and performed on hundreds of pianos, and also sitting in places like Steinway Hall and comparing A, B, C and D pianos side by side, in which case you can make a fair comparison.

Yes, when you turn up for your recital and the piano turns out to be a total turkey (which has happened to me with several pianos, including very new Steinways that haven't been looked after or set up right), there's not much else you can do other than just play your best and compensate for the instrument.

Sometimes you can get a really nice surprise and play on a beautiful piano - it can be one that you don't expect like a 100 year old Chappell grand that happens to have been kept in good condition, or it can be a fabulous new Steinway or whatever.


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After all these "voyelles et consonants" (sonores et sombres, no doubt), it is high time for some poetry about these instruments:

A noir, E blanc, I rouge, U vert, O bleu : voyelles,
Je dirai quelque jour vos naissances latentes :
A, noir corset velu des mouches éclatantes
Qui bombinent autour des puanteurs cruelles,

Golfes d'ombre ; E, candeur des vapeurs et des tentes,
Lances des glaciers fiers, rois blancs, frissons d'ombelles ;
I, pourpres, sang craché, rire des lèvres belles
Dans la colère ou les ivresses pénitentes ;

U, cycles, vibrements divins des mers virides,
Paix des pâtis semés d'animaux, paix des rides
Que l'alchimie imprime aux grands fronts studieux ;

O, suprême Clairon plein des strideurs étranges,
Silences traversés des Mondes et des Anges :
- O l'Oméga, rayon violet de Ses Yeux ! -

Arthur Rimbaud

(not only Steinways I see here).




Last edited by Frankni; 04/24/14 02:40 PM.

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Magnifique..

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