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Re: Question on Chord Progressions [Re: PianoGamer] #2263931
04/19/14 02:12 AM
04/19/14 02:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 16,353
Canada
keystring Offline
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Brian, I'm trying to understand the word "parallel". I know that for scales, where we say "relative major" (A minor, C major) and "tonic major" (A minor, C major), in the US you say "parallel major" instead of "tonic major". So is that what you mean by "parallel mode"?

Well modern modes are not like Renaissance modes - it's a different musical system. The solfege (movable do) itself is kind of a bastardization too that doesn't quite fit the old system of music, nor the new one, so I tend to agree with you. In the RCM theory when it came to modes, they actually taught two systems for writing them out - I didn't know what to think about that.

Quote
Actually, now that I think about it, in the world where III means 3 minor, what would you call a 3 major chord?

I don't think we had that. If you mean the Bb chord in the key of G minor, that is a major chord (Bb D F). That's the one you called bIII and I would have called III in the system I first learned.

The only system I know where a minor chord would be called III is a system where you don't distinguish quality and III simply means "3rd degree chord, whatever the quality may be". You're just supposed to know that the 3rd degree of a major key is minor so why write it out? My old Horwood book works that way (written in the 1940's).

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Re: Question on Chord Progressions [Re: keystring] #2263935
04/19/14 02:21 AM
04/19/14 02:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,139
Nashville, TN
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Brian Lucas Offline
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Originally Posted by keystring
Brian, I'm trying to understand the word "parallel".

It's the opposite of relative. C major is parallel to C minor or C Dorian. Basically, the tonic stays the same and the rest of the scale degrees change with the new scale.

Originally Posted by keystring
If you mean the Bb chord in the key of G minor, that is a major chord (Bb D F). That's the one you called bIII and I would have called III in the system I first learned.

No, sorry, I meant a B chord in G minor. I meant to say "in a world where III means a flatted third, what would you call the unflatted third chord?". See the system you are mentioning doesn't take into consideration that there may be chord roots that aren't native to the natural scale.

I'm starting to think we might be boring the rest of the board with this discussion. smile


-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 23+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
My Sight Reading eBook
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Re: Question on Chord Progressions [Re: Brian Lucas] #2263945
04/19/14 03:53 AM
04/19/14 03:53 AM
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Canada
keystring Offline
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Originally Posted by Brian Lucas
Originally Posted by keystring
Brian, I'm trying to understand the word "parallel".

It's the opposite of relative. C major is parallel to C minor or C Dorian. Basically, the tonic stays the same and the rest of the scale degrees change with the new scale.

In Canada we call that the "tonic minor" or "tonic major". "Parallel" is an American term. I didn't know it was also used for modes.

Quote
No, sorry, I meant a B chord in G minor. I meant to say "in a world where III means a flatted third, what would you call the unflatted third chord?". See the system you are mentioning doesn't take into consideration that there may be chord roots that aren't native to the natural scale.


What do you mean by "natural scale"? Do you mean as in "natural minor"? Or are you deciding to consider the major scale as being the "natural" scale, and all other scales to be offshoots of that scale?

This is what I meant previously when I wrote of contexts and systems. There are many ways of seeing music, and we create systems around that. But other people may not be sharing those systems, so it has to be defined.

Re: Question on Chord Progressions [Re: keystring] #2264056
04/19/14 11:07 AM
04/19/14 11:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,139
Nashville, TN
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Brian Lucas Offline
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Originally Posted by keystring
In Canada we call that the "tonic minor" or "tonic major". "Parallel" is an American term. I didn't know it was also used for modes.

That's interesting. I didn't know that.

Originally Posted by keystring
What do you mean by "natural scale"?

Ok, so in the key of G minor, Bb major is the III in the system you've mentioned, correct? Bb is the natural scale tone in that key. So, in that system, what would you call a B major chord? As we discussed before, I have 2 names for both those chords, III and bIII. It's been a while since I've done roman numeral analysis, so I'm not sure there is a method for chords that don't start on scale tones. I'm guessing this system may not account for really complex chord changes.

Anyone from other parts of the world like to jump in and tell us how you notate chords?


-Brian
BM in Performance, Berklee College of Music, 23+ year teacher and touring musician
My Downloadable Video Piano Lessons
My Sight Reading eBook
My Music
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