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Used Kawai vs New Ritmuller #2263270
04/17/14 11:08 PM
04/17/14 11:08 PM
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cromax Offline OP
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Hi pianoworld forum!

This is my first post here, in fact I just registered myself!

I'm an intermediate/advanced level student (I think :P) - i'm "playing" (trying to play :P ) pathetique sonata, liebestraume n 3 and a few chopin studies - and I, along with my parents, decided that it's time to replace my digital roland piano for a real piano!

I've visited a few stores and tried a few pianos but unfortunatly here where I live (Portugal) the variety of pianos you can find in stores is very limited frown But well between the pianos I've tried the ones that I had most joy playing were a Kawai grand piano model RX5 and a Ritmuller GH170. Both of this pianos were new and costed around the same price- note that the kawai is on sale - (12000-13000 €). I also liked Yamaha U3 upright but this was the only upright piano I liked between the ones that I tried. :P

I am posting here because I want to know your opinion about this two pianos, the Kawai and the Ritmuller, and all suggestions of other options are truly apreciated smile

Oh i also tried a Yamaha grand, I think it was C3, but I didnt like it as much!

Thank you in advance! smile

P.S: Sorry for my English!

Last edited by cromax; 04/20/14 11:31 AM.
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Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263273
04/17/14 11:12 PM
04/17/14 11:12 PM
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I'm surprised the RX5 is the same price as the Ritmuller. The RX5 is a substantially bigger piano. Maybe they are selling it cheaply to get rid of it so they can display only the new GX Kawais. I would certainly take the RX5 - especially at that price.

Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263295
04/18/14 12:54 AM
04/18/14 12:54 AM
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musicpassion Offline
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I would go for the Kawai.

Kawai is a very well regarded manufacturer that has earned world wide respect over a long history of building pianos. They command a strong resale (however no piano really holds value that well compared to when new), they have successfully integrated modern technology into their actions, and they are a pleasure to play.

Of course your opinion of the touch and tone of the piano is very important.

By the way, if you're following these forums you already know there are some Ritmuller dealers on here who try really hard to promote their brand. Obviously they are not an unbiased source.


Pianist and Piano Teacher
Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263297
04/18/14 12:55 AM
04/18/14 12:55 AM
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California, USA
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musicpassion Offline
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Almost forgot: welcome to the forum and happy piano shopping!


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Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: ando] #2263298
04/18/14 01:03 AM
04/18/14 01:03 AM
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Robert 45 Offline
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The Ritmuller is very impressive for its size. The Kawai RX5 offers about an extra foot in length which will probably deliver a richer and more powerful bass sound. The Kawai RX5 has probably been discounted as the RX range has been superseded by the GX series.
Choose the piano which you like better.

Kind regards,

Robert.

Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263303
04/18/14 01:15 AM
04/18/14 01:15 AM
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I have owned a Ritmuller GH170 -- its a wonderful piano for its size. But if you are getting an RX5 for the same price, definitely get the RX5. Unless you happen to like the Ritmuller better ...

Last edited by rlinkt; 04/18/14 01:20 AM.
Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263306
04/18/14 01:35 AM
04/18/14 01:35 AM
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Wow, that's a great deal, especially in Europe where I figured there'd be all these taxes. I paid a little more for my RX5 here in the wild-west (US).

Well, get the one you like better. I hope it would be apparent. I know which one I'd get smile

Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263389
04/18/14 07:49 AM
04/18/14 07:49 AM
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cromax Offline OP
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Thanks for so many answers!

I was really impressed with the Ritmuller, it has a great tone and touch and it is a very beautiful piano! But the Kawai was a beast too, and his bass was indeed more powerful than the Ritmuller's wink
I'm going to the store again to play both pianos and do some more research to be sure which one I like the most! But maybe i'll go for the Kawai smile

Oh, just one more question, I heard somewhere here in the forum that some RX models have a Millenium III system, if i can recall it correctly, and others don't.. What is the difference that this system make and how can I check if the piano is equipped with this system?


Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263461
04/18/14 10:40 AM
04/18/14 10:40 AM
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Ontario, Canada
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mc_2 Offline
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Millennium III is the name of Kawai's ABS/carbon-fibre composite action. From what I've read, it's been used in their RX pianos since 2004, while models from before 2004 have their previous-generation ABS action. Someone who has directly compared the two actions would be able to comment better than I would, but the newer action is supposed to be somewhat faster and more controllable.


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Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263522
04/18/14 12:53 PM
04/18/14 12:53 PM
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Kawai is an excellent piano, beautiful action, and lasts a long time. Ritmuller isn't a bad piano but it's not in the same class, and over time I think the Kawai will prove to be a better choice.


Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263532
04/18/14 01:33 PM
04/18/14 01:33 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
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Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
Kawai is an excellent piano, beautiful action, and lasts a long time. Ritmuller isn't a bad piano but it's not in the same class, and over time I think the Kawai will prove to be a better choice.


The truth is that same/similar size pianos by one maker need to be compared to same/similar size piano by another.

The very fact that a 5'7 grand made such good impression against somebody else's much larger 6'6 is remarkable.

At same time it begs the question how Ritmuller would check out if compared by same/similar size.

Alas, this situation does not seem to exist here not allowing for meaningful or conclusive comparisons between these pianos.

Ironically the weight of these pianos is almost same due to the much heavier sand-cast plate of the Ritmuller.

It obviously shows in tone.

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 04/18/14 01:40 PM.

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Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: Norbert] #2263542
04/18/14 01:49 PM
04/18/14 01:49 PM
Joined: May 2001
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Maryland/DC/No. VA
Steve Cohen Offline
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Originally Posted by Norbert


The truth is that same/similar size pianos by one maker need to be compared to same/similar size piano by another.


Norbert smile


But on many other occasions you have argued that pianos should be compared based on similar selling prices. For example, comparing one of the Chinese-made pianos you carry or have carried to a similarly priced Yamaha or Kawai.

Which is it?


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My postings, unless stated otherwise, are my personal opinions, not those of my clients.
Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263553
04/18/14 02:11 PM
04/18/14 02:11 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,439
Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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Hi Cromax,

Since none of us has played those particular pianos, there is no way to give solid advice on which is the more impressive sounding and which action is most responsive. But, there are some general opinions available.

On paper, and with past experience, I would say that the Kawai is the better idea. Unless that particular RX5 has less bass substance and power than typical, I would find it to be a more satisfying experience. The Kawai RX series is a time tested line of instruments. That is also a very, very good price.

I will say, however, that the Ritts are very impressive pianos. But, there is the consideration that they are still somewhat of a newcomer in the battle. It will all come down to what your fingers and ears tell you.

Keep us posted!

Cheers,


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263557
04/18/14 02:18 PM
04/18/14 02:18 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
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Surrey, B.C.
Norbert Offline
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Quote
But on many other occasions you have argued that pianos should be compared based on similar selling prices. For example, comparing one of the Chinese-made pianos you carry or have carried to a similarly priced Yamaha or Kawai.



This is correct and this indeed is a very unusual situation:
overlooked it... blush

Based on this, the Kawai does indeed appear to be the better deal.

By same token one still needs to advice customers always same: going with the piano that makes most sense to them.

Wishing OP the very best: both very nice pianos!

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 04/18/14 02:19 PM.

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Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642
Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263564
04/18/14 02:31 PM
04/18/14 02:31 PM
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From what I've heard about Pearl River I'd take that Kawai.
In fact I'd probably take the kawai regardless.


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Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263586
04/18/14 03:01 PM
04/18/14 03:01 PM
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cromax Offline OP
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Wow, so many responses, thank you guys.. I really appreciate your kindness! smile

Originally Posted by mc_2
Millennium III is the name of Kawai's ABS/carbon-fibre composite action. From what I've read, it's been used in their RX pianos since 2004, while models from before 2004 have their previous-generation ABS action. Someone who has directly compared the two actions would be able to comment better than I would, but the newer action is supposed to be somewhat faster and more controllable.


Thank you for explaing it to me smile I think the piano is from 2004 so I'll ask the salesman if he knows it!

After all your comments I'm more and more inclined for the Kawai! Anyway when I have the opportunity to go back to the store and play the pianos I'll update you on the situation smile

I'm really excited about having a grand piano with such quality! smile




Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263587
04/18/14 03:01 PM
04/18/14 03:01 PM
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Atlanta, GA
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An RX-5 for that price would be a used piano, not a "sale" price. The RX-5 would not be near 30.000€ in Germany but 13.000€ in Portugal. Please find out more information on that instrument.


Sam Bennett
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Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263595
04/18/14 03:14 PM
04/18/14 03:14 PM
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Rochester MN
Minnesota Marty Offline

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I think we were all working under the assumption that it was new.

Originally Posted by cromax
Both of this pianos were new and costed around the same price- note that the kawai is on sale - (12000-13000 €).


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: cromax] #2263605
04/18/14 03:29 PM
04/18/14 03:29 PM
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cromax Offline OP
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You're right, I should have clarified it better.. The guy said that he sold the piano recently but it wasn't paid until a limit time so they just took the piano back to the store from the guy who bought it but didn't pay his debt. But from what the guy said it wasn't even "used". I think that, along with the GX replacement is the reason for this price.. I'll get more information about it the next time I visit the store!
Anyway I think I'm going to get a technician to check the piano before buying it!

EDIT: So this might count as an used piano. When I said new I meant not used crazy

Last edited by cromax; 04/18/14 03:33 PM.
Re: Kawai vs Ritmuller [Re: Minnesota Marty] #2263608
04/18/14 03:33 PM
04/18/14 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
I think we were all working under the assumption that it was new.

Originally Posted by cromax
Both of this pianos were new and costed around the same price- note that the kawai is on sale - (12000-13000 €).


Yes indeed. This was the whole basis for our comments. If this piano is 10 years old, it can't be considered new. If it is pre-Millenium III it is not worth getting excited about at all. There are plenty of those about. I think this thread has kind of lost its purpose now.

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