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Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: ando] #2262626 04/16/14 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
Roland did not set this up.

Wha??

Originally Posted by ando
Are we not allowed to find this whole thing ridiculous?

Fine, but I'd feel better if some of that was directed at Roland rather than 100% at the hapless average Joe who shorts out his spankin' new RD800 feeling around on a cramped, dark stage. It's the superior attitude thing I don't get. We all screw up now and then, to err is human and all that.

At least Roland seems to be taking it seriously, and that's kind of saying something. I don't think they would be reacting unless the issue had substance.

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Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster] #2262664 04/16/14 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by ando
Roland did not set this up.

Wha??


I was using your own wording back at you, Dewster. You said: "Roland basically sets you up to fry your brand new DP..."

I just said they didn't set anyone up.

Quote
Originally Posted by ando
Are we not allowed to find this whole thing ridiculous?

Fine, but I'd feel better if some of that was directed at Roland rather than 100% at the hapless average Joe who shorts out his spankin' new RD800 feeling around on a cramped, dark stage. It's the superior attitude thing I don't get. We all screw up now and then, to err is human and all that.


Yeah sure, but aren't you taking this all a bit seriously? Ok, so a few of us made light of the incredible unlikeliness of plugging a power cord into an XLR socket - which led to some wider comments about personal responsibility and nanny-state. But none of us is wanting to see somebody fry their keyboard or themselves, so I'm sure none of us is too concerned that Roland issued a warning about careful use of the power cord.

I still find it stupefyingly unlikely. I've got a power cord like that here and I tried to plug it into an XLR socket - let me tell you this, even though they might look vaguely compatible on an internet picture, in reality they are not even close to being compatible. I can't even get close to getting that plug in that socket. The pins do not line up, and the outer ring will not permit that plug from getting in there - not even close, far too wide.

For somebody to actually succeed in "frying" their Roland, they would have to take a utility knife and butcher the heck out of that plug, and then bend the heck out of the XLR pins, and even then have to apply substantial force to make any electrical contact. There is no way somebody can damage their Roland "on a dark stage" or anywhere else. Try it for yourself - it simply won't happen. This wouldn't be a "screw up" or "erring as human", it would be a concerted effort to change the physical properties of the plug and make it go where it clearly does not fit. In reality, the worst thing that is actually going to happen is that some guy can't manage to plug in his keyboard because he keeps trying the wrong socket. It's not actually dangerous.

Now, considering that, does it seems so strange that this issue has drawn a few ridiculing remarks? It's only getting ridicule because it's ridiculous.


Quote

At least Roland seems to be taking it seriously, and that's kind of saying something. I don't think they would be reacting unless the issue had substance.

They have a legal department, who naturally advised them to cover their asses and put out an advisory. It's standard practice. Doesn't mean the issue has any real credibility.

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster] #2262779 04/16/14 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by dje31
You can't fix stupid, but the stupid can---and do---lawyer-up and sue.

IMO moving the AC input next to the XLRs, making it more XLR like, and angling the panel down so you can't see what you're doing was a total bone headed move by Roland.

But anyone who gets electrocuted because Roland blew it is a idiot? Or does this only apply in the US if your surviving spouse / children seek redress in court? I'm confused...


I completely agree with you. This is a design error. Yeah it would be stupid to actually do it to yourself but people do stupid things every day- its human nature. the burden shouldn't be on the user - there is simply no way that you should be able to inadvertently plug the electrical power cord into anything other than the electrical power receptacle. Period. Putting a warning on a website isn't good enough. That is far too passive. I'd eat that up if i were a lawyer representing some poor schmo who went to learn chopsticks and wound up playing smoke on the water.

Consciously abusing a product and then blaming the manufacturer- well that's one thing. This is another. I think Roland knows that.



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Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: bfb] #2262867 04/17/14 01:37 AM
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Nobody can anticipate how stupid an idiot really is.


Roland RD-700NX // Casio PX-5S // Galaxy Vintage D
Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: torhu] #2262868 04/17/14 01:43 AM
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But seriously. As long as nobody can point to any actual information about this, it's not unlikely that this story is just a lie.


Roland RD-700NX // Casio PX-5S // Galaxy Vintage D
Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: torhu] #2262878 04/17/14 02:01 AM
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Originally Posted by torhu
As long as nobody can point to any actual information about this, it's not unlikely that this story is just a lie.


Check the link in third post of this thread.


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Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: bfb] #2262884 04/17/14 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bfb
Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by dje31
You can't fix stupid, but the stupid can---and do---lawyer-up and sue.

IMO moving the AC input next to the XLRs, making it more XLR like, and angling the panel down so you can't see what you're doing was a total bone headed move by Roland.

But anyone who gets electrocuted because Roland blew it is a idiot? Or does this only apply in the US if your surviving spouse / children seek redress in court? I'm confused...


I completely agree with you. This is a design error. Yeah it would be stupid to actually do it to yourself but people do stupid things every day- its human nature. the burden shouldn't be on the user - there is simply no way that you should be able to inadvertently plug the electrical power cord into anything other than the electrical power receptacle. Period. Putting a warning on a website isn't good enough. That is far too passive. I'd eat that up if i were a lawyer representing some poor schmo who went to learn chopsticks and wound up playing smoke on the water.

Consciously abusing a product and then blaming the manufacturer- well that's one thing. This is another. I think Roland knows that.



No, it isn't. Have you read my post above? It isn't possible to plug this power lead into the XLR without a deliberate act of destroying the plug and mangling the pins. I tried to plug one of these plugs into an XLR socket last night - and it's not even close to possible. I'm amazed at how willing many people are to just have a cursory look at the 3 pin pattern and conclude that you can plug them into each other.

This is a massive storm in a teacup. After having seen just how impossible it is to make this mistake without wilful vandalism of the product, I don't even think Roland should have had to issue any kind of statement on the matter. They should be applauded for doing so, but it just isn't necessary. I encourage any of you who have one of these 3 pin plugs and a device with an XLR socket to go see for yourselves.

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: ando] #2262891 04/17/14 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by ando
I encourage any of you who have one of these 3 pin plugs and a device with an XLR socket to go see for yourselves.


Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.


Employed by Kawai Japan, however the opinions I express are my own.
Nord Electro 3 & occasional rare groove player.

"I agree that the User Manual is very good." - arc7urus, March 2019
Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Kawai James] #2262892 04/17/14 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by ando
I encourage any of you who have one of these 3 pin plugs and a device with an XLR socket to go see for yourselves.


Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.


I've got one of those here too. They still don't fit. Spacing is wrong and outer plug doesn't fit the XLR hole. I don't think even the pin thickness is compatible either. Again, you have to butcher the plug and the pins to make it go in there.

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan] #2262932 04/17/14 05:36 AM
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Roland's approach - and some of the reactions on here - is akin to putting warnings on packets of nuts such as "may contain nuts". Completely unnecessary and insulting to the intelligence of even an amoeba. They are two different kinds of plugs/sockets. One doesn't fit the other. Non issue. Next they'll be reminding us that pressing middle C won't transport you into the future - just in case some moron imagined it would in some drug induced psychotic episode.


C. Bechstein Model B | Roland RD-1000 | Kawai VPC1
Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: EssBrace] #2262937 04/17/14 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by EssBrace
Roland's approach - and some of the reactions on here - is akin to putting warnings on packets of nuts such as "may contain nuts". Completely unnecessary and insulting to the intelligence of even an amoeba. They are two different kinds of plugs/sockets. One doesn't fit the other. Non issue. Next they'll be reminding us that pressing middle C won't transport you into the future - just in case some moron imagined it would in some drug induced psychotic episode.

+1, Steve.

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: ando] #2263057 04/17/14 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ando
It isn't possible to plug this power lead into the XLR without a deliberate act of destroying the plug and mangling the pins. I tried to plug one of these plugs into an XLR socket last night - and it's not even close to possible.

Not sure what kind of AC plug is causing the trouble (Roland just says "outside the US" in their advisory wording) but I just tried plugging an IEC 60320 C-7 connector into one of the 3 pin XLR connectors on the back of our RD-700NX.

[Linked Image]
Figure 1. IEC 60320 C-7 power cord connector.

[Linked Image]
Figure 2. 3 pin XLR chassis connector.

[Linked Image]
Figure 3. Fits like a glove in our NX!

It went in pretty easily, and actually feels like it was made for the outlet. Groping around I imagine even Einstein could screw this one up, which I suppose makes us all idiots who are just asking for it.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming of dividing the world into betters and lessers.

[UPDATE]

Originally Posted by Kawai James
Unlike previous Roland stage pianos, the RD-800 use a 2-pin (C8) power inlet.

And the C8 is the chassis connector for the C-7 cord I found frighteningly easy to plug into the XLR. Thanks for that info James!

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: 27Jan] #2263067 04/17/14 01:14 PM
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If the washmachines instructions for americans wouldn't had to have written inside "do not wash you cat or other animal", there would be no need for Roland to for such move which makes me a lot of fun lolz. But as long as it is obligatory, also with "do not dry your cat inside the microvawe oven" it had to be like this, making a lot of fun for the rest of the world from American strange law lolz.

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster] #2263078 04/17/14 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
It went in pretty easily, and actually feels like it was made for the outlet. Groping around I imagine even Einstein could screw this one up, which I suppose makes us all idiots who are just asking for it.

What happens when you turn the power on?


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Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: lolatu] #2263090 04/17/14 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by lolatu

What happens when you turn the power on?


[Linked Image]

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: lolatu] #2263091 04/17/14 02:10 PM
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^ exactly ^

Originally Posted by lolatu
What happens when you turn the power on?

This is the electrical fittings department. I think you're looking for the electrocution, blow it up, and make it catch fire department, which is down the hall to your left. You can't miss it, it has a big "Roland" sign on the door.

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: dewster] #2263092 04/17/14 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dewster
Originally Posted by ando
It isn't possible to plug this power lead into the XLR without a deliberate act of destroying the plug and mangling the pins. I tried to plug one of these plugs into an XLR socket last night - and it's not even close to possible.

Not sure what kind of AC plug is causing the trouble (Roland just says "outside the US" in their advisory wording) but I just tried plugging an IEC 60320 C-7 connector into one of the 3 pin XLR connectors on the back of our RD-700NX.

[Linked Image]
Figure 1. IEC 60320 C-7 power cord connector.

[Linked Image]
Figure 2. 3 pin XLR chassis connector.

[Linked Image]
Figure 3. Fits like a glove in our NX!

It went in pretty easily, and actually feels like it was made for the outlet. Groping around I imagine even Einstein could screw this one up, which I suppose makes us all idiots who are just asking for it.

Back to your regularly scheduled programming of dividing the world into betters and lessers.


Well put. Thanks for posting this.

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: GLR] #2263136 04/17/14 04:09 PM
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Thanks dewster for posting this. The issue obviously is a serious issue. Whatever those who always know everything better may think.

And of course AC plugs vary widely in different countries. That someone is safe in HER or HIS country of course doesn't imply that everyone is. A common fallacy of ignorance: What's true in my neck of the woods must be true everywhere.

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: Kawai James] #2263149 04/17/14 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kawai James
Originally Posted by dewster
angling the panel down so you can't see what you're doing was a total bone headed move by Roland.


Good point.

Yes it is a good point. So how many manufacturers followed Roland's lead in angling the back panel out so that you could see what you were doing?

Re: Roland RD 800 [Re: slipperykeys] #2263154 04/17/14 04:54 PM
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I find this whole issue very interesting and I wonder if Roland is going back to drawing board with the internal power supply configuration. I see that no one has the RD800 in stock currently and maybe they are recalling them to replace the internal power supply back to what the previous models used (the RD700 series) with a standard IEC cable. That certainly sounds costly if they are in fact reconfiguring the RD800 to have a standard IEC connector cable, but it might solve problems in the future. I really don't know why they changed the configuration in the first place, I doubt that it was significantly cheaper or made the keyboard any lighter.

Last edited by Rhodie73; 04/17/14 04:59 PM.

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