2022 our 25th year online!

Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments.
Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
(ad)
Who's Online Now
71 members (36251, Bruce Sato, Carey, 20/20 Vision, AlkansBookcase, bcalvanese, brdwyguy, amc252, akse0435, 11 invisible), 2,080 guests, and 315 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
#2260775 04/12/14 06:02 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090

MacDowell: To the Sea, Op. 55, No. 1

I am very puzzled:
What is the name of the circled non-harmonic tone in measure 6?

Click for Picture Here



Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
Thank you for helping!


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
P
9000 Post Club Member
Offline
9000 Post Club Member
P
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,328
What do you mean the name? It's an accented passing tone.


Regards,

Polyphonist
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
I am thinking passing tone too, but my student's theory test was marked wrong with "passing tone" as answer.

Maybe is something else that I am not enlighten of?

Last edited by ezpiano.org; 04/12/14 06:07 PM.

Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
I don't see anything.

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
Originally Posted by ezpiano.org
I am thinking passing tone too, but my student's theory test was marked wrong with "passing tone" as answer.

Maybe is something else that I am not enlighten of?

Your student is correct. The answer key contains a different answer.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
What is the answer on the answer key?

Thanks!


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
Hi KeyString, can you try one more time for the link above?

Or, here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxdJp3V5iKZqRlZKbGgtbkhCQzA/edit?usp=sharing


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,555
T
4000 Post Club Member
Offline
4000 Post Club Member
T
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 4,555
When I looked at it I said passing tone.

When I played it and listened I thought suspension.

But it doesn't really resolve, does it?



gotta go practice
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391
M
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
M
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 17,391
It's a 2-1 suspension, but it doesn't sound like it with the B-flat minor chord it's resolving to, so it's almost like a deceptive cadence. Of course, this is kicking around a lot of cobwebs, so I could just be spouting nonsense. smile


private piano/voice teacher FT

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
8000 Post Club Member
Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,949
It's not a suspension. There would need to be a tie from the previous chord, or at least the same note from the previous chord being replayed on the current chord, followed by a stepwise descent.


Private Piano Teacher and MTAC Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
As far I can tell it's an "accented passing note", not "just a passing note". It's on a strong beat and perhaps this is why "passing note" was crossed out as wrong.

It's the kind of thing we see in a lot of Bach Chorals, btw...

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
The classical textbook meaning of suspension I know wants to have the tie, but there is a suspended kind of feel to it. What I'm hearing is an Fm in beat 1, and when we get to that Eb, it sounds like the Eb of Fm7 coming so late, that the Fm isn't there anymore. And of course Fm7 moves to Bbm, which we have next. If that Eb had come a tad earlier, we would actually have a suspension that we could tie over; even the stepwise descent would be there (Eb to Db). There is also an appoggiatura feel to it - this heavy lean into the Eb which then resolves to the Db which is part of the Bbm chord.

I would love to know what this is from, and where it's located in the music, because it feels like it's in the middle of something. It sounds quite lovely.

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
6000 Post Club Member
Offline
6000 Post Club Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 6,562
I don't think it's necessary to have a tie, if the pitch is there in the previous chord (and is part of the chord, otherwise we're entering Wagnerian realms, which gets tricky)...

It IS an appoggiatura (which as far as I know is the correct answer to this test), but it's a wrong "correct answer", exactly because it's acting as a passing tone (because of the D and B before and afterwards). But on a strong beat (thus my reply of an "accented passing note" which is not part of the curriculum of CM!

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
Originally Posted by Nikolas
I don't think it's necessary to have a tie, if the pitch is there in the previous chord (and is part of the chord, otherwise we're entering Wagnerian realms, which gets tricky)...

In formal theory the way it is taught, I believe the tie-rule is in there. Music does more than what formal theory teaches. In fact, one of the books I studied has a caveat in the beginning, warning that what's in there reflects only a certain type of music in a limited period. (Which was interesting to see written out like that).
Quote

It IS an appoggiatura (which as far as I know is the correct answer to this test), but it's a wrong "correct answer", exactly because it's acting as a passing tone (because of the D and B before and afterwards). But on a strong beat (thus my reply of an "accented passing note" which is not part of the curriculum of CM!

EZ's student had written "passing tone", and that was marked wrong. "Accented passing tone" is probably right, but it also makes us think of Fm7 which moves to the Bbm, and then our accented passing tone also acts as an appoggiatura. smile

Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way? laugh

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
Originally Posted by AZNpiano
Originally Posted by ezpiano.org
I am thinking passing tone too, but my student's theory test was marked wrong with "passing tone" as answer.

Maybe is something else that I am not enlighten of?

Your student is correct. The answer key contains a different answer.


I am curious, you seen the answer key, what is the answer key to this question?


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
Originally Posted by KS
Deliberately stirring the pot a bit: is there a point in learning these names and being able to label music in this way? laugh


I am sure those who created the curriculum think it is important.


Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
B
bzpiano Offline OP
1000 Post Club Member
OP Offline
1000 Post Club Member
B
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,090
Below is the whole piece.

It is in measure 6, the top E-Flat at beat 3.

Whole Piece

Last edited by ezpiano.org; 04/13/14 03:59 AM.

Piano lessons in Irvine, CA
Follow my 4YO student here: http://bit.ly/FollowMeiY
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 19,678
Here is your piece, once on piano

once (different key) as an orchestra arrangement

Page 1 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

Moderated by  platuser 

Link Copied to Clipboard
What's Hot!!
Piano World Has Been Sold!
--------------------
Forums RULES, Terms of Service & HELP
(updated 06/06/2022)
---------------------
Posting Pictures on the Forums
(ad)
(ad)
New Topics - Multiple Forums
New DP for a 10 year old
by peelaaa - 04/16/24 02:47 PM
Estonia 1990
by Iberia - 04/16/24 11:01 AM
Very Cheap Piano?
by Tweedpipe - 04/16/24 10:13 AM
Practical Meaning of SMP
by rneedle - 04/16/24 09:57 AM
Country style lessons
by Stephen_James - 04/16/24 06:04 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums43
Topics223,391
Posts3,349,282
Members111,634
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010

Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations |

Advertise on Piano World
| Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map


Copyright © VerticalScope Inc. All Rights Reserved.
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community.