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What keystring's story leaves me feeling is that it's useless to study music unless it's one on one with a truly exceptional teacher. Perhaps I get overly discouraged.

Over in the ABF I'm floating a thread about a significantly aurally based way into music: Music - seeking a new way in. This is an experimental idea for me.

This actually points to an important factor in this whole story. Teaching doesn't happen in a vacuum and you are working in an environment. Lessons are taken for different reasons. Ideally, students would take lessons because they want to learn how to play music well. If exams were taken at all, it would be in order to assess how well the process is going, so that lessons can be tweaked accordingly. But that is not all that exists.

So we know that there is a population of parents who want their students to "take music" in order to have a "well rounded education", and they want to see a bunch of certificates and high grades. Whether the child enjoys music, or learns to play music well, is not that important. This parent seems to be of that group. I don't know how you would answer. Maybe diplomatically?

If your student is more reasonable and actually interested in music, maybe you could turn it into a learning experience. Let him know that music is not always that black and white. In this forum there were about 4 aspects found to this music. What is more important - earning points, or learning something interesting?

@PianoStudent88, it helps to have an exceptional teacher, but YOU simply need to be an independent thinker, and you'll master it in no time.

Probably not. I often don't hear dissonance well (that is, as something different from consonance), and I can't usually distinguish steps from skips, and I sometimes can't even tell if something fast is changing direction, or which direction it's going if it's tweedly deedling up and down. (Although I guess I don't think of appogiaturas as usually being fast, because I expect you'd want to lean on them a bit to bring them out.)

On the other hand, in the recitatives in the Bach St. John Passion which my chorus sang this spring, I could hear the way the tenor Evangelist ended all his lines with an added note that isn't in the score, and those sounded very distinctive to me. Not dissonant, but very much like coming to rest gently: dah daaah. I think most of those might have been accented passing tones though, not appogiaturas. I could get out my score and listen to the recording (or even better, first listen without the score) and find out if there are two sets of these which sound different: the app's vs. the apn's.

There's a Mozart very early minuet (you know, like K.2 or something that he wrote when he was three or something ridiculous) which has these in it, where I can hear the dissonance. Not sure if those are app's or apn's.

@KS

Music is not only black and white for sure this point my student and myself understand that.

As I told you before, we do not need the 0.67 points back, no, we do not need.

You do not know my student, nor his mom, I hope if you won't categorize her into anything. For sure I know she wants ALL of it that you mentioned above, which is...
1. Well-rounded education
2. Certificates with high grades
3. Student enjoy music
4. Student played well

I do not need to get those 0.67 points back, I just need the organization to realize that....
EITHER -->They can agree that music is not only black and white and hope they can accept some grey color in the test

OR --> Please include only "black and white" music in the test and leave out anything that is grey color in the future.

Again, I do not need those 0.67 points back.

Thanks,

BTW...

The MTAC State Board of Directors is seeking to hire individuals to write theory and ear training Certificate of Merit workbooks. Please note that THIS IS A PAID contracted position – not a volunteer position.


Own and have extensive experience with the Finale Notation Software,
Have a keen sense of clean and neat formatting,
Have a striving for excellence and perfection,
Have extensive experience as a CM Teacher,
Be well versed with the requirements in the CM Syllabus,
Be able to honor instructions and deadlines set forth in the CM Workbook Guideline
Be able to accept criticism and be willing to revise work if needed without complaints, and
Be able to communicate regularly via emails.


Here is the link

With appogiaturas there are sort of two uses of the word. Here's a summary of one kind of use.

http://www.ars-nova.com/Theory%20Q&A/Q93.html

The description comes from theory of counterpoint.

From a well-known theory text (Aldwell/Schacter): "Metrically strong non chord approached by leap and left by step ... The resolution is almost always down.."

From Peter Schubert's Modal Counterpoint Text (p. 125): "an unprepared accented dissonance." The example shows D leaping up to F with a D underneath the D and C underneath the F. The F then resolves down to E. So that agrees with the Aldwell/Schacter text.

From Peter Schubert's Baroque Counterpoint textbook (p. 244):"a skip into a dissonance .... on a strong beat [that] resolves by step we often call an appogiatura." The examples include a beginning note that leaps up into a dissonance on a strong beat which resolves down by step. That also agrees with Aldwell/Schacter. As does the first description above in the web link. These definitions don't seem to agree with what the test said in the McDowell example was an appogiatura.

On the other hand it's true if we surf around the web there are all kinds of definitions to be found. Some of which agree with the "leap up into a dissonance and resolve down by step" and others which don't agree with that and which make accented passing tones and appogiaturas look like the same thing. But then the question for those sites that don't agree with the history of theory is where do they get their information from?

The CM test writers can use any definition they want to. It's their test. It's their prerogative. If they want to work with answers that are contrary to historical texts, well, sure, they can do that.

But they could also include their definition of an appogiatura in the answer sheet. With a few examples. That way students and teachers could see why the answers are as they are. And teachers and students from that could make up their own minds as to whether or not the test was based on historical established answers and tradition - and informed knowledge of theory - or something else entirely. But what's the answer based on if it's not based on traditional historical theory?

I was taking a stab at answering your question:

by looking at what may be involved.

What point are you making with this information? What are you trying to say?

I am not familiar with the CM. With RCM, there are recommended texts /workbooks. I purchased two for grade 1 harmony, and both presented the same material and the same information and definitions, but from different angles. One of them which I have already mentioned tried to go beyond the concepts listed by the RCM but they contained at least that information. I imagine it is not that much different from when a province creates curriculum guidelines (I'm familiar with Canada) and then textbooks are written following those guidelines.

So how is this with CM. Do they also have set definitions and recommended texts?

I am a straight forward person. I am sorry if my post offended you, I have no intention in that.

My student's mom is not the kind that you think she is. Yes, she wants all, she wants certificate with high score, and she wants her kids to play good piano and be excellent in piano at the same time. Her kids played in retirement homes, duet for fun, participate in festivals (even when I said he will not win anything) with positive attitude.

My student is very dedicated too. He was hoping to write in his college application essay that he got a perfect (100%) score in his CM Level 10 theory, but now he cannot do so.

You can't be serious. This is getting ludicrous.

My worst Advanced student this year got a 96% without even trying. She also "missed" the appoggiatura question. I don't go crazy and bug the CM Chair for that extra point.

Your student and his mother need to seriously get over it. And you need to tell them that.

EZpiano.org, so, what are you going to do now? You've been given the ammunition to argue the point. Are you going to do so? Do you understand the issues? Is it really that important to you? And besides, isn't this one of those things that they can simply retake?

Lol...for a college application essay? Really?!? That's what matters to you/them? That is sad...

That's not a nice post... Besides that it's up to EZPIANO (and not Explains) to do whatever she pleases. She came here for advice, not for this!

@nikolas, that was auto correct, my apologies...

Those were serious questions that asked.

I realize that, but your choice of phrasing wasn't exactly friendly. Anyhow. ..

I notice you have carefully avoided explaining the function of an appoggiatura. And by function I mean purpose - why do you use one at all? Up to this point all discussion has been on whether a note meets the technical criteria for one, not why it is there.

I am not sure that I know, but here is what I have understood the difference to be.

A passing tone connects to the next note or phrase. An appoggiatura by contrast adds weight and emphasis to the current note. (An acciacatura embellishes the current note)

That understanding affects how I play them. And why else would it be important to even know the term?

TimR, "passing tone" is simply a technical term in dry theory" where you have chord 1, then chord 2. Then on the horizontal melodic side you have note 1x moving to note 2y and you want to bridge those two notes. So if note 1x is E, 2y is C, then your "bridging note" is D, giving you E,D,C. Or you often see/hear in a G7 to C; F,E,D,C. That is all that "passing tone" means. We're not into musical expression yet.

But then we get into the musical effect part. Much of the time, our passing tone (which is also a non-chord tone) happens between beats. But sometimes we get it on the beat, in which case this non-chord tone, which is also a passing tone, becomes accented. Hence the answer people gave of "accented passing tone".

Then finally we have the musical meaning (rather than textbook, period-based meaning) of appoggiatura, which is "to lean". So the thing which is a passing note, is also an accented passing note, is also an appoggiatura. In other words, it doesn't have to be either/or - it can be both.

TimR, did you play the passage on the piano.
In fact
A443, in addition to listening to the recording, did you?

TimR, it makes a difference if you take the time to hear what is compositionally going on. Without doing that, we don't have a common basis on which to discuss what is happening compositionally. And this, after all, is what theory is all about!

You have to understand that composers compose, and theorists come in after the fact and try to organise what has happened long ago. You seem to have this confused: you seem to be saying there are these RULES that composers throughout time should follow.

The appoggiatura is an historically significant breakthrough of a certain time period. If I were to define the term appoggiatura, for you, it must get modified through time and compositions so that you can understand the morphology of its function (i.e., the shading slightly modifies over time).

Let me give you something different to think about: what is and what is not a piano? The development of piano goes through periods: 1) developmentary early c.1700s, 2) evolutionary c.1790-1860, 3) revolutionary c.1880 and 4) modern c.1910 onwards. Technically defining what is piano is has a lot to do with the construction, but in the end, it is really the sound which is what matters and is the defining characteristic. Using this analogy, you are trying to call an early fortepiano a modern piano.

I hope that helps.