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#2260108 - 04/11/14 05:44 AM Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones  
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WimPiano Offline
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The Netherlands
I am about to make an appointment with my piano tuner. (For a scheduled tuning)
Some notes in the lower tenor section have metallic overtones (not really bad but I notice it). Also they seem a bit louder then I want.
Some might have to do with my playing ability (heavier left hand wink ), some of it might have to do with the room (open, hardwood floor over concrete).

But it definitely also has to do with my piano.

What would be the best thing to say to my tuner/tech about this?
Could the metallic overtones be solved by just tuning?



Schimmel 116 S
ABF Recitals: XXXIV - XXXVIII & Schumann Recital .....
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#2260118 - 04/11/14 06:38 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Rochester MN
Just explain it as you have here and demonstrate what you are hearing. Let the tech suggest a solution as it could be almost anything that you are hearing.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2260143 - 04/11/14 07:51 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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WimPiano Offline
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Thanks, sounds logical, it's his job.



Schimmel 116 S
ABF Recitals: XXXIV - XXXVIII & Schumann Recital .....
#2260178 - 04/11/14 09:24 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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Hey Wimpiano, I've noticed that sound before on some of my pianos... an ever-so-slightly out of tune unison can cause it and a fine tuning can fix it. Sometimes the hammer needs just a few slight pokes from a voicing needle and you'd be surprised at the improvement.

Sometimes the string bearing points could need attention/reseating. Sometimes it can be a defect in the string.

There are several things that can cause that metalic overtone, and some of the fixes are simple and some are complex. A good tech should be able to take care of if for you.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Rick


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#2260213 - 04/11/14 11:15 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: Rickster]  
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Please post the results of your tuning. I've had a similar problem, in the higher notes, and repeated tunings have not seemed to help. In fact, the two tuners I've had don't even seem to hear the problem. (which suggests it's my hearing, not my piano.)


Anne
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Technics PCM Digital Ensemble PR307
#2260249 - 04/11/14 12:37 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Rochester MN
Anne,

I hate to say this, but you are assuming that tuners have good hearing.


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2260254 - 04/11/14 12:55 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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S. Phillips Offline
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Usually tonal issues in the tenor are the result of poor hammer fit to the strings. The hammer will probably need slight filing to correctly fit them and then a bit of needling to even the tonal production of each string.

This is because of the angle of the hammers in the tenor and the arc of the hammer in motion. This results in the majority of the hammer fitting issues residing in the tenor section.

Metallic sounds in the treble can also be hammer fitting but can result from the energy of the string escaping to the front of the string area just in front of the capo bar or aggraffe. Several solutions for that exist. Muting those strings, proper reshaping of the capo bar, correction of the weight of the hammer by reshaping or reducing the size of the molding. Sometimes it is simply isolating the area of the hammer that is producing the metallic sound and needling to correct.


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#2260260 - 04/11/14 12:57 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Anne,

I hate to say this, but you are assuming that tuners have good hearing.


...what?


Rich Galassini
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#2260261 - 04/11/14 12:59 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: Rich Galassini]  
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Minnesota Marty Offline

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Rochester MN
Originally Posted by Rich Galassini
Originally Posted by Minnesota Marty
Anne,

I hate to say this, but you are assuming that tuners have good hearing.


...what?


whome


Marty in Minnesota

It's much easier to bash a Steinway than it is to play one.
#2260265 - 04/11/14 01:07 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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Many pianos have very low tension in the lower tenor compared to the rest of the piano, especially smaller pianos. But most problems can be eased by good tuning, and if that is not enough, some voicing.


Semipro Tech
#2260314 - 04/11/14 02:51 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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Norbert Offline
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Quote
Usually tonal issues in the tenor are the result of poor hammer fit to the strings. The hammer will probably need slight filing to correctly fit them and then a bit of needling to even the tonal production of each string.


It's basically part of normal concert work including voicing procedure and prep.
It certainly goes beyond 'tuning'

Most pianos, especially grands, will benefit from it from time to time.
It can and often *does* make a big difference.

Please note: not all tuners/techs are good at this or know how to get optimal results.

Pick carefully who you hire for the job...

Norbert smile

Last edited by Norbert; 04/11/14 02:52 PM.

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#2260472 - 04/11/14 09:07 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: Minnesota Marty]  
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Ed McMorrow, RPT Online content
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Great advice!


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#2279128 - 05/21/14 06:57 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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Tuner came along, fixed it. Just tuning smile He visited this morning and have been playing since. I am having a blast.
No more metallic overtones and the sustain in the treble is longer. Treble seems to float.
It was not that it was very much out of tune according to him but this minor difference does SO much!!


Schimmel 116 S
ABF Recitals: XXXIV - XXXVIII & Schumann Recital .....
#2279149 - 05/21/14 07:32 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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BrianDX Offline
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This story gives me some positive vibes.

Although we are currently very happy with our new piano, I'm hearing some "buzzing" in the lower octaves, especially between C2 and A3. I don't hear this in our teacher's Yamaha C3.

I'm hoping this is something that can be addressed when the piano gets its first tuning in a couple of weeks?


Yamaha C2X | Yamaha M500-F
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#2279153 - 05/21/14 07:43 AM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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WimPiano Offline
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@BrianDX, I am sure it will. The tenor break got some extra attention and it really payed off!
Incredible what a "simple" tuning can do. It really makes me happy!


Schimmel 116 S
ABF Recitals: XXXIV - XXXVIII & Schumann Recital .....
#2279348 - 05/21/14 04:51 PM Re: Lower Tenor section some metallic overtones [Re: WimPiano]  
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Grandman Offline
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Yep, nothing like a well tuned piano. Makes me happy!


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