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Re: Ten year plan to become an advanced player?
Saranoya #2256771 04/04/14 12:13 PM
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I would like to nit-pick with this just a little. I agree completely that just playing something advance does not make someone advance. That's a really long discussion that deserves its own thread.

On the other hand, requiring someone to sight-read something before he is considered at that level is too strict. If you give me music at my level, it would take me a few days to learn all the notes, then a few weeks to polish off the piece and move on. I would imagine for an advanced player, he would also need a few days to learn all the notes of an advanced piece. It would not be reasonable to require that he be able to sight-read an advance piece say the Hammerklavier.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hammerklavier

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Re: Ten year plan to become an advanced player?
Saranoya #2256796 04/04/14 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Saranoya
A teacher on here said, not too long ago, that the level one can sight-read at is the actual level of one's pianistic ability ...

Perhaps for slotting someone at a particular grade level, their site reading ability would weigh heavily. But surely, one can not then directly correlate this to pianistic ability without consideration of anything else.

What about the great pianists (including blind pianists) of the world that do not read?

Following on this philosophy, all would have ZERO pianistic ability ...

I don't buy it.


Re: Ten year plan to become an advanced player?
Greener #2256807 04/04/14 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Greener
What about the great pianists (including blind pianists) of the world that do not read?


For someone who doesn't read but still plays other people's music, I think their level is what they can copy by ear. By which I mean: hear it once, or at most a few times, and then play it.

For someone who'd rather not copy anyone else's music, their level is what they can come up with in their minds, sit down and play -- regardless of whether they choose to write it down first.

For an improviser who preferably plays in interaction with other musicians, their level is what they can come up with on the spot in a jam session.

Etcetera, etcetera.

I'm not saying nobody should ever play anything above their level, as defined in this strictest sense. I do it all the time, because I have a LOT more fun that way. But that was not the issue. The issue is that the OP seems to be basing their definition of an "advanced" player" solely on the pieces that person can play.

I say being an advanced player has very little to do with the music you play (though there's an element of that, too), and a *lot* to do with how quickly you learn it (which requires the development of other skills such as sight-reading, a strong ear, etc.), and how you play it once you have.

Re: Ten year plan to become an advanced player?
Saranoya #2256821 04/04/14 03:08 PM
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Man, you classical players are always talking about "levels" and "grades." We jazz players just try to keep getting better. One should always be able to enjoy playing at whatever "level" you are at, but always keep trying to get better. There are no goals, only a wonderful journey.

Re: Ten year plan to become an advanced player?
JanVan #2256844 04/04/14 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jjo
Man, you classical players are always talking about "levels" and "grades." We jazz players just try to keep getting better. One should always be able to enjoy playing at whatever "level" you are at, but always keep trying to get better. There are no goals, only a wonderful journey.


Classical players learning via a structured "conservatory of music" approach, are already in a graded system. Thus, they have a clear understanding of what grade they are at in the system.

I can't tell you how many posts I have seen from players that are not within a graded system asking ... "I can play ______, what grade am I? Most, if not all of these are from non classical players, as the classical players are in a graded system and already know the answer.

I agree it is about the journey. But people are curious of where they are in the journey, which is fine. What is not fine though (IMO), is this over generalization between styles.


Re: Ten year plan to become an advanced player?
JanVan #2256856 04/04/14 04:52 PM
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Regarding levels, if you heard me play, you'd know what level I was at. If you heard me sight reading, chances are good that you'd recover laugh

This is developing into an interesting thread.

The OP has already qualified his definition of advanced and he's wanting to know how far he can go with a diligent practise regime.

There's a lot of myths out there that late starters won't make it on piano and rubbish like not teaching old dogs new tricks. It's very reasonable that some one would want to know and it's nice to dispense a little truth.

Bach's Well Tempered Clavier and the sonatas of Mozart and Beethoven, the mightiest aside, are all about grade eight (ABRSM) and that's within the realm of anyone starting from scratch at any age. People take up the piano in their retirement, or return to it, and many make grade 8 within ten years.

To the OP, it's not the time you spend that will determine your progress but what you do with it.

One of the main things is to spend more time trying to play what you can't yet and less time playing what you already can.

Read something new every day. I wouldn't want to put a time on it. My sight reading varies day by day from a couple of difficult lines to a couple of easy pages. It varies from keeping up with a drum machine at tempo, wrong and missing notes aplenty, which gradually get sorted over a few repeats, to a slow and meticulous exploration of the music.

I have taken to the Australian/Hal Leonard initiative of forty pieces a year and I pick a new piece more or less every week. Some pieces are done in a couple of days, the odd one might take another week. They're easy pieces, mind, that I CAN do in a week to a reasonable level of competence.

Memorise something new every day. It doesn't have to be more than few bars or even just a few notes. But doing it every day makes it easier over time.

Learn new pieces but don't neglect past repertoire. I believe it's only the pieces that mature over many years that enable the push to higher technical levels.

Whether you want to target technical skills for their own sake or develop the techniques you need from and for your repertory pieces is personal (unless you're doing exams). I think I'd go nuts if I had to do 20 minutes a day on scales and arpeggios but if they are part of a sonata I'm happy to spend 30 minutes a day for a few weeks. I never spent a lot of time on scales and arpeggios but I've devoted hours to the scale passages in the recapitulation of Mozart's K.545, for example.

Bob's already pointed the way to Bernhard and Chang. Add Graham Fitch and Dr Brent Hugh to the mix and there really isn't much more to learn about how to go about practising. Try stuff, record what you've done. Then try something else. If it works add it in. If it doesn't work you've learnt something about yourself.



Richard
Re: Ten year plan to become an advanced player?
zrtf90 #2256894 04/04/14 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by zrtf90



I have taken to the Australian/Hal Leonard initiative of forty pieces a year and I pick a new piece more or less every week. Some pieces are done in a couple of days, the odd one might take another week. They're easy pieces, mind, that I CAN do in a week to a reasonable level of competence.




I read about this and thought it impossible, but two minutes later I could see the sense in this. I started in January and so glad I did.


Following Trying to follow the Ling Ling 40 hour method

Kawai K8 & Kawai Novus NV10


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