Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums
Over 2.5 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers (it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!

SEARCH
Piano Forums & Piano World
Find a Professional
Our Classified Ads
Find Piano Professionals-

*Piano Dealers - Piano Stores
*Piano Tuners
*Piano Teachers
*Piano Movers
*Piano Restorations
*Piano Manufacturers

Advertise on Piano World

What's Hot!!
Posting Pictures on the Forums
-------------------
Forums RULES & HELP
-------------------
ADVERTISE on Piano World
(125ad)
Piano Life Saver - Dampp Chaser
Dampp Chaser Piano Life Saver
(ad)
Piano Buyer Guide
Piano Buyer Fall 2017
Who's Online Now
90 registered members (Almaviva, augustm, ando, anotherscott, Anita Potter, 27 invisible), 1,381 guests, and 2 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
(ad)
Estonia Pianos
Estonia Pianos
Quick Links to Useful Piano & Music Resources
Quick Links:
*Advertise On Piano World
*Free Piano Newsletter
*Online Piano Recitals
*Piano Recitals Index
*Piano & Music Accessories
*Live Piano Venues
*Music School Listings
* Buying a Piano
*Buying A Acoustic Piano
*Buying a Digital Piano
*Pianos for Sale
*Sell Your Piano
*How Old is My Piano?
*Directory/Site Map
*Virtual Piano
*Music Word Search
*Piano Videos
*Virtual Piano Chords & Scales
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#2255908 - 04/02/14 12:08 PM What does "breathe more"....  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,831
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,831
New York City
or take a breadth here mean in performing piano music?
Does it simply refer to taking a slight pause between phrases?

I saw a master class at Mannes yesterday with the great pianist Vladimir Ovchinnikov(perhaps not so well known in the U.S. but he won Leeds and 2nd place in the Tchaikovsky piano competitions),
http://www.schmidtart.com/artists/vladimir_ovchinnikov

and he was constantly telling the student to breathe more or take a breadth.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 04/02/14 06:41 PM.
(ad)
Piano & Music Accessories
piano accessories music gifts tuning and moving equipment
#2255913 - 04/02/14 12:23 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
beet31425 Offline
4000 Post Club Member
beet31425  Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,169
Bay Area, CA
Originally Posted by pianoloverus

Does it simply refer to taking a slight pause between phrases?

I think this is the main idea.

Although, like everything here, there's nothing simple about it. How to end the phrase just before the slight pause (trail off in tempo a touch? in dynamic?), how to start the next phrase post-pause, how to do all this naturally and in keeping with the spirit of the music... none of this is straight-forward.

-J


Beethoven op.110, Chopin op.27/2, Liszt Vallée d'Obermann
#2255915 - 04/02/14 12:24 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Derulux Offline
5000 Post Club Member
Derulux  Offline
5000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,446
Philadelphia
I think you hit it exactly -- to put space between notes/phrases, so the music doesn't sound rushed. Sometimes, taking an actual breath can help, but I've found that really only helps people who have played a wind instrument (I suppose the concept is more adaptable to one who is used to a physical breath literally creating space in the music).

But I think there are room for other similar concepts in the phrase "breathe more". When we breathe, especially a deep breath, we naturally slow down and relax. Tension leaves us, and we simply "are" (instead of trying to force ourselves to be something else). We exist in the moment, neither thinking forwards or backwards. There are a lot of ideas related to breathing that can be translated to music.. whether we're releasing tension in our playing, allowing the music to come out instead of forcing it out, etc.

So, typically, I'm used to hearing the phrase in the context you used, but often it means more than "what" to do, but also "how" to do it (if the student is the kind of person that can step into a more abstract mindset).


Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
#2255928 - 04/02/14 12:38 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,300
hreichgott Online content
3000 Post Club Member
hreichgott  Online Content
3000 Post Club Member

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,300
western MA, USA
Might be easier to hear than explain.

Here is a student playing Chopin's nocturne Op. 32 no. 1. It's very good student playing but what's missing is the breath. You can imagine trying to sing along -- you'd have no good place to breathe and you'd feel a little stressed or pushed ahead by the pacing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXnmsmkbM0I

Listen to the first 30 sec of that, and then the first 30 sec of Claudio Arrau on the same piece
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF7UTLjubJA
Now we can sing, relax and breathe.
In some places he does it by taking a lot of extra time.
In other places it's more about tapering the phrases nicely, especially the ends of phrases.


(edit: that student did in fact learn how to breathe, she's got some great more recent performances on a different channel smile )

Last edited by hreichgott; 04/02/14 12:43 PM.

Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com

Working on:
Fauré, Preludes Op. 103
Beethoven trios for an original ballet
Four-hands program of Mozart, Corigliano, Schubert and Barber
And... Nunsense II (whole show)

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
(ad ) MusicNotes.com
sheet music search
#2255940 - 04/02/14 01:00 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 832
sandalholme Offline
500 Post Club Member
sandalholme  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 832
Dorset, UK
I think, as in good public speaking, a good performance contains silent spaces that provide shape, dramatic (or contemplative) pauses, an absence of hurry and rush. I also believe that contrary to what might be feared, "breathing" adds to the rhythmic coherence, rather than disturbing it. As with dynamics, we (alright, I!) tend to err on the side of too little rather than too much, fearing exaggeration. When we analyse how a good orator achieves impact, it's amazing how many pauses (spaces) there are. And how long some of them are.

My wife is a good speaker and at weddings, funerals etc she can quickly reduce me to tears, mainly through a rhythmic pulse punctuated by judicious spaces.

#2255994 - 04/02/14 02:24 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: hreichgott]  
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,831
pianoloverus Online content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
pianoloverus  Online Content
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,831
New York City
Originally Posted by hreichgott
Might be easier to hear than explain.

Here is a student playing Chopin's nocturne Op. 32 no. 1. It's very good student playing but what's missing is the breath. You can imagine trying to sing along -- you'd have no good place to breathe and you'd feel a little stressed or pushed ahead by the pacing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXnmsmkbM0I

Listen to the first 30 sec of that, and then the first 30 sec of Claudio Arrau on the same piece
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF7UTLjubJA
Now we can sing, relax and breathe.
In some places he does it by taking a lot of extra time.
In other places it's more about tapering the phrases nicely, especially the ends of phrases.


(edit: that student did in fact learn how to breathe, she's got some great more recent performances on a different channel smile )
I will listen a few more times, but for me the the main differences were more that Arrau took a much slower overall tempo and used more rubato.

Last edited by pianoloverus; 04/02/14 02:28 PM.
#2255997 - 04/02/14 02:26 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,273
Polyphonist Online content
9000 Post Club Member
Polyphonist  Online Content
9000 Post Club Member

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 9,273
New York City
And didn't rush.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2256017 - 04/02/14 02:52 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,557
BDB Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member
BDB  Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 25,557
Oakland
Melodic lines are usually based on voice inflections, with their pauses for breath. If you do not play a melody as it might be sung, it sounds unnatural.


Semipro Tech
#2256110 - 04/02/14 06:11 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,194
Kuanpiano Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Kuanpiano  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,194
Canada
Playing spaciously, letting the details of the music come out.

I find that "breathing" helps to bring out details and musical climaxes. Without doing it, the music just moves to the end of the piece, without putting emphasis on all of the moments in between.


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

#2256115 - 04/02/14 06:19 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,417
Carey Offline
8000 Post Club Member
Carey  Offline
8000 Post Club Member

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,417
Phoenix, Arizona
Originally Posted by pianoloverus
and he was constantly telling the student to breath more or take a breadth.

Hate to be picky, but I believe you mean "breathe more or take a breath." smile

Last edited by carey; 04/02/14 06:25 PM.

Mason and Hamlin BB - 91640
Kawai CA-65
YouTube channel - http://www.youtube.com/user/pianophilo
#2256126 - 04/02/14 07:13 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 819
DanS Offline
500 Post Club Member
DanS  Offline
500 Post Club Member

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 819
Trying singing the phrase, then trying singing the phrase and taking a breath in said spot...

#2256977 - 04/04/14 11:01 PM Re: What does "breathe more".... [Re: pianoloverus]  
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,604
Dave B Offline
2000 Post Club Member
Dave B  Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,604
Philadelphia area
Sound takes time to both form and decay. Especially when the sound is musical.


"Imagine it in all its primatic colorings, its counterpart in our souls - our souls that are great pianos whose strings, of honey and of steel, the divisions of the rainbow set twanging, loosing on the air great novels of adventure!" - William Carlos Williams

Moderated by  Brendan, Kreisler 

Piano Acc. & Gift Items in
Piano World's Online Store
In PianoSupplies.com ,(a division of Piano World)
our online store for piano and music gifts and accessories, Digital Piano Dolly, party goods, tuning equipment, piano moving equipment, benches, lamps Caster Cups and more.


Free Shipping* on Jansen Artist Piano Benches, Cocoweb Piano Lamps, Hidrau Hydraulic Piano Benches
(*free shipping within contiguous U.S. only)
(ad)
Pearl River & Ritmuller
Pearl River Pianos
(ad)
Pianoteq
PianoTeq 6 Out now
ad
Pierce Piano Atlas


New Topics - Multiple Forums
OrganTeq Alpha - from PianoTeq folks at Modartt
by newer player. 12/13/17 06:40 PM
Feeling lost
by hast66. 12/13/17 05:31 PM
dry air, sticking keys
by f4tune81. 12/13/17 12:27 PM
How many Blues players are there here?
by rocket88. 12/13/17 11:34 AM
A pitch 435. Is it right so?
by Maximillyan. 12/13/17 11:26 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums44
Topics183,259
Posts2,679,054
Members89,267
Most Online15,252
Mar 21st, 2010
(ad)
Accu-Tuner
Sanderson Accu-Tuner
Check It Out!
There's a lot more to Piano World than just the forums.
Click Here to
Explore The Rest of Piano World!!
Visit our online store for gifts for music lovers


 
Help keep the forums up and running with a donation, any amount is appreciated!
Or by becoming a Subscribing member! Thank-you.
Donate   Subscribe
 
Our Piano Related Classified Ads
| Dealers | Tuners | Lessons | Movers | Restorations | Pianos For Sale | Sell Your Piano |

Advertise on Piano World
| Subscribe | Piano World | PianoSupplies.com | Advertise on Piano World |
| |Contact | Privacy | Legal | About Us | Site Map | Free Newsletter |


copyright 1997 - 2017 Piano World ® all rights reserved
No part of this site may be reproduced without prior written permission
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0