Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Piano Forum Buying a Schimmel or Bosendorfer grand?

I am new to the Piano Forum and wanted to get some opinions about buying a grand Schimmel or Bosendorfer. I have been playing on several models this past month. I do prefer the Bosendorfer over all pianos, but the price is so high I will have to make payments for several years. I was very pleasantly surprised when I played on a 6'5" Schimmel Konzert at the store. The touch and sound was closest to the Bosendorfer than others. My dilemma is to buy a new CS 214 Bosendorfer for $80K or buy a pre-owned 2008 213T Schimmel that has hardly been used and in great condition for 30K! I may eb able to get it for $27/28K but it doesn't have the Renner action and the sound is a bit too bright for me, plus i think the owner's room was very "live" so it was hard to hear the sound clearly. I am 50 years old and thinking about saving/catching up for my retirement, etc. I want to be a realist and consider my budget, but i also wonder if by buying this fine piano, will I be always dreaming about a Bosendorfer?! I am a part time piano teacher but I have a day job in science as well. This will primarily be for my own enjoyment. I currently have a 30 year old upright Schafer and Sons that has been good to me, but I need a major upgrade now! I have been classically trained but recently getting into a lot of jazz). Anyone out there owns a Schimmel 213T that are super happy with it? Does $28K seem reasonable for a 2008 213T in excellent condition? thanks for any feedback...

I suggest to go for the sound you really like and not for something "coming close".

How about a pre-owned Bösendorfer? Might fit your budget better

Of course there are Schimmel 213T owners super happy with it. But why would that matter for you?

Bösendorfer is very special. Schimmel makes outstanding pianos and the price is good, but if you don't particularly like the sound, then pass. Perhaps voicing will make it more to your preference, but it will always sound very different from Bösendorfer. Bösendorfer is very special.

I'm curious...why would it not have a Renner action? The K213 from that time should have Renner.

Agree with the others re:getting the sound you want. Modern-era Schimmels have always had Renner actions from the factory.

Thank you for your feedback. I do like the Schimmel sound and touch, especially when it comes to playing jazz...but nothing is like a Bosendorfer. However, my budget is an issue. Regarding the Renner action, I thought that Schimmel grands used it only in the last couple of years? This Schimmel was made in 2007/2008.

There are not many pre-owned Bosendorfers near me. There are only a couple and they are refurbished/re-built. and they are still around $50k (cash). I am not a frequent performer to justify such an expensive purchase. Everyone who has heard the sound of the Schimmel tell me they love the sound and I'm crazy not to buy it. I guess I just don't know what to do...!

What about a rebuilt bosendorfer?

Do you think you would regret the schimmel? Can you afford the bosendorfer in the long run? It's nice to get what we want buy sometimes we have to cut our cloth accordingly and schimmel is a good piano. Yes I'd prefer the bosendorfer but if I thought I would be happy with the schimmel at fifty grand less I might go for it.

Let's break this down financially: You mentioned you are also thinking about the saving/retirement side. From the Bosendorfer to the Schimmel, it is an immense difference in price. Yes, the Bosie is a great instrument, but it is very expensive.

I think you can find something near the price of the Schimmel that will make you just as happy, and save a ton of money doing it.

Schimmels have had Renner actions for decades. Tough choice. Good luck.

A Bosendorfer is also on my "When I become a millionaire list," but as Suzie Orman once said about similar luxury items, in this case she was talking about luxury cars. She said you shouldn't have to make payments on a "Mercedes."

Although it's not exactly true I agree with her point that these luxury items shouldn't set you back too, too much or threaten your financial security.

I really like Schimmels too, but I thought they were a totally different than Bosendorfer in many ways. Not sure what's a good alternative to the Bosie that isn't that expensive, maybe a Shigeru Kawai SK7 or Estonia?

I love Bosendorfers too. Love 'em. Especially the 225.

But...get the Schimmel.

Thank you all for your comments. It's a tough decision for me...I've been dwelling on this for weeks now
I was thinking an alternative could be to get the Schimmel and then save like crazy for the next 4-5 years, and if by then, I am still dreaming about a Bosendorfer, I can sell the Schimmel and with the extra saved money, I'll purchase a 214 or 225...that may never happen since we don't really know what the future brings, but it is a hopeful idea

Does anyone have any comments about the price? Does $28K seem reasonable for a like new Schimmel 213 from 2008? Apparently the family took lessons for a few months and then never played on it again. It was bought for $34k but they also installed an IQ player piano system that cost them another $5k. My piano technician said it's in pristine condition...

Schimmels are fine pianos, but this specific sample gives me pause because it doesn't have a Renner action. What action DOES it have?

In addition to the Schimmel (Konzert) 213, similar-sized models from Bechstein (Academy), Estonia, August Forster, Shigeru Kawai, Mason & Hamlin, Seiler (SE) and (used) Steinway might give you a pleasing touch, tone and build quality that you can afford.

It's a little unclear from your posts how much you like the tone and touch of the Schimmel. Very few people can afford their absolute dream piano(typically one of the Tier 1 pianos in Fine's ranking) and most piano purchases involve some compromise.

OTOH you should definitely love the tone/touch of the Schimmel. If you don't then I wouldn't buy it. But this doesn't mean you have to buy the Bosendorfer. You can keep looking for a piano you love in a lower price range.

If the sound of the Schimmel seems too bright you can try asking the dealer to voice the piano down for you. It it's a private sale you can bring along a good tech and ask them if the piano could be made more mellow and have them demonstrate the change on a few notes.

And remember there's a tendency for some PW members to always recommend the more expensive piano when they're spending someone else's money.

And if you decide to go that route, be sure to ask the tech about the pros/cons of keeping the IQ Player system installed in the instrument. Over time would the player system compromise the integrity of the piano?? Certainly something to consider.

Yeah, those are all wonderful pianos too. The list goes on and on and on...

And if new, you would have to be prepared to do the following:

1. Look forever to find one anywhere near where you live (especially true of the Forster 215 - which I also love - and the new Estonia 210) and

2. Add about $20k to the $28k for the Schimmel


BTW it has a Renner action as Sam said.

Hi Furtwrangler:

Well, we have an Estonia 210! Just arrived - Come try it!

Honestly you need to take a step back and try more pianos. There are so many great pianos stores in California, why would you rush to any decision? That is how you will make a bad decision.

See what's out there. Try used pianos and new pianos. You may very well find something you like more than a Bosendorfer for less than the price of a Schimmel.

Alternately you may find something worth sacrificing your retirement.

On the matter of price:

Schimmel has 4 different lines of grand pianos that they are selling right now. PianoBuyerGuide ranks Schimmel among the top piano manufacturers, and I think they deserve it. However it can be tough to keep all the models straight.

I'm not sure the specific model of the 213T (which is no longer listed as for sale) is really worth the price (maybe someone else knows that model). You can get a brand new Schimmel 208W for maybe $30,000 after negotiation, for example.

If I were looking in that price range, I might consider a $20k used Baldwin grand, or a 1929 Steinway with a sweet sound, both of which I've seen recently. There are so many nice used pianos.

I have played on many different piano brands including Steinway, Yamaha, Baldwin, Kawai, and even Fazioli, and I truly love the Bosendorfer the best. I love the sound of Steinways but I am not in love with the touch. Ever since I played on a 9 foot Bosendorfer 15 years ago, I have been dreaming of getting one...but that doesn't mean I can afford it. Having said that, I have never played on a Bluthner or Bechstein. So those would be the ones I would like to explore, although from what I understand, they are very expensive as well.

I think I may have miscommunicated my thoughts about the Schimmel earlier. I really DO like the sound and feel of this particular Schimmel and it seems that it might be a good price for a 5 year old 7 foot Schimmel that has hardly been played on. The same exact piano (new) was listed for $50k at the piano store.

In that case it sounds like one heck of a deal. The Schimmel Konzert range are fantastic piano's. About it appearing no longer on the website of Schimmel: last year they changed the lineup. The K213T is now the C213T. The Konzert series has grown a couple of centimeters and the "old" Konzert stack has replaced the classic line.

If I am not mistaken Joey Calderazzo recently got a K213 as well to replace his K189.