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#2251568 - 03/24/14 07:38 PM Roland HP505 key touch  
Joined: Mar 2014
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kadison Offline
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kadison  Offline
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Something's bugging me about the key touch settings on my HP505.

They're obviously there to make louder playing easier, but on the standard touch setting (and harder) it's impossible to get the full dynamic range of the piano.

Can be proven my looking at midi data. On default key touch the value only goes a little above 100 no matter how hard you hit the keys, so you never get the loudest samples. Is this normal?

Surely it should be gradiated so that in all touch settings you are able to hit a note value of 127?

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#2251580 - 03/24/14 07:50 PM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: kadison]  
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pwl Offline
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Bay Area CA
Originally Posted by kadison
Surely it should be gradiated so that in all touch settings you are able to hit a note value of 127?

Hmm . . . I don't necessarily think so.

On an acoustic piano, if your maximum force (velocity?) hitting the keys is, let's say, less than Rubinstein's then you're not going to be able to get the same volume of sound out of that instrument that he can. In other words, it's reasonable that there's a certain level of force/velocity needed to reach a note value of 127; and altho it's convenient to be able to achieve a nice volume level with a relatively light touch, the fact you can't achieve the piano's maximum output at that setting seems like an appropriate limitation.

#2251592 - 03/24/14 08:03 PM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: kadison]  
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JayGVan Offline
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Are you turning the key touch to heavy or extra heavy?

I don't have a 505 here to test. I do have a 506 though. I'll do what I can and get back to you. Will take some time though.

In what country are you located?

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2251594 - 03/24/14 08:08 PM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: kadison]  
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On the standard touch setting, you should be able to obtain settings above 120 up to 127 fairly easily. Though, I know on the 'hard' settings on my piano (HP302) its very difficult to get those readings - I was scared of breaking the piano in fact.

I find the -N- setting fine, anyway, for good overall control from pp to ff, at least. The system permits all levels, by step, from 0 - 127 (I managed from zero through to 15 by step, anyway - same with the sustain pedal)


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

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#2251888 - 03/25/14 01:30 PM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: kadison]  
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JayGVan Offline
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I did extensive testing using MIDIMonitor on the HP506 we have in our offices. And yes, around 100-110 you are HAMMERING the keyboard. I really tried hard to hit 127. Did it a couple of times. But I was abusing the keyed to get there. FAR beyond any normal playing technique.

I tried this at MEDIUM, HEAVY and EXTRA HEAVY settings, and although the displayed velocity numbers were pretty consistent, the tonality of the piano changed appropriately.

Jay



Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2251905 - 03/25/14 01:54 PM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: JayGVan]  
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kadison Offline
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Thanks for the replies.

Jay, I'm in the UK.

So if you're having to hit the keys far beyond any normal playing technique, on what is apparently the most realistic setting, surely it's not right that you can't 'max' the piano out and experience the whole range of samples? I could understand it on the hardest key touch settings (though to be honest I can't see much point to them anyway).

#2251916 - 03/25/14 02:25 PM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: kadison]  
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Originally Posted by kadison
... if you're having to hit the keys far beyond any normal playing technique, on what is apparently the most realistic setting, surely it's not right that you can't 'max' the piano out and experience the whole range of samples? I could understand it on the hardest key touch settings (though to be honest I can't see much point to them anyway).


It does seem rather pointless - I've only ever experimented with the touch settings, and not found either 'light' or 'heavy' to be of much use at all. Maybe the 'heavy' settings would make pianissimo passages easier to play....dunno. Because then, you'd never develop the appropriate touch, would you - especially if you wanted to transfer to other pianos.

Really, the Neutral setting is most like a normal piano, and gives the easiest way to play all levels and develop an expressive technique.


Roland HP 302 / Samson Graphite 49 / Akai EWI

Reaper / NI K9 Ult. / Focusrite Saffire 24
W7, i7 4770, 16GB / Yamaha HS7s / HD598

Prudence is a rich ugly old maid courted by Incapacity. He who desires, but acts not, breeds pestilence.
William Blake, The Marriage of Heaven & heck
#2251917 - 03/25/14 02:28 PM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: kadison]  
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JayGVan Offline
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JayGVan  Offline
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Originally Posted by kadison
Thanks for the replies.

Jay, I'm in the UK.

So if you're having to hit the keys far beyond any normal playing technique, on what is apparently the most realistic setting, surely it's not right that you can't 'max' the piano out and experience the whole range of samples? I could understand it on the hardest key touch settings (though to be honest I can't see much point to them anyway).


In normal playing, at the Medium setting on KeyTouch. I felt like I was able to pull the full tonal range out of the piano between about 2 and 111. I couldn't hear much appreciable difference of the timbre between 111 and 127. There may be some, but it is very small.

Just like on an acoustic. You can only hit it so hard, and then there's not much left at the very top end.


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
#2251986 - 03/25/14 05:07 PM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: JayGVan]  
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kadison Offline
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kadison  Offline
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Originally Posted by Jay Roland
I couldn't hear much appreciable difference of the timbre between 111 and 127. There may be some, but it is very small.

Just like on an acoustic. You can only hit it so hard, and then there's not much left at the very top end.


Maybe it's different on the 506 but to me a well hit note on the 505's L1 touch sounds louder and brighter than it's possible to achieve on the default M setting.

I appreciate you taking the time to test it though. Next time I'm in a dealer I'll give the 506 a try for myself.

Do you know if any more software updates are to be released for the 505 or have we had the lot?

#2252210 - 03/26/14 05:18 AM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: kadison]  
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Wuffski Offline
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Maybe there is no real problem reaching the MIDI value only to about 100, if timbre and dynamics are already fully drawn at that value. Maybe full range of dynamics and timbre changes are just not taking advantage of the available 128 steps but distribute the available sound range in between values 0 to 100 only, maybe programmers did so with a percentage scale in mind directly mapping the values free of any scaling factor when programming. They maybe just skipped the further 28 theoretically available values.
Just a thought.

#2252253 - 03/26/14 07:45 AM Re: Roland HP505 key touch [Re: JayGVan]  
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peterws Offline
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Northern England.
Originally Posted by Jay Roland
I did extensive testing using MIDIMonitor on the HP506 we have in our offices. And yes, around 100-110 you are HAMMERING the keyboard. I really tried hard to hit 127. Did it a couple of times. But I was abusing the keyed to get there. FAR beyond any normal playing technique.

I tried this at MEDIUM, HEAVY and EXTRA HEAVY settings, and although the displayed velocity numbers were pretty consistent, the tonality of the piano changed appropriately.

Jay



I think this is normal for many DPs. I had one with a tonal setting and a touch setting. They did the same job in reverse . . .


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