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Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: debrucey] #2152226
09/17/13 02:36 PM
09/17/13 02:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
L
Louis Podesta Offline
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L

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Posts: 863
Originally Posted by debrucey
Loads of people play this piece badly without realising they are. Perhaps this is why it has a reputation for being easy. Mind you, most Grade 7/8/whatever pieces are played badly most of the time. Actually I think it's quite a hard piece.


Very well said.

As proof, I list the following link to a recording of the only American to ever study this piece under the composer, and the first one to play it in public in this country.

If you listen very closely you can hear the arpeggiation and also the asynchronization. This recording was a major inspiration in my news story video.

In addition, it has lead me to a friendship with the only living student of the performer, the composer Ramon Sender, who has verified everything in my video regarding Debussy.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBweTHrOwEU

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Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Louis Podesta] #2152242
09/17/13 03:07 PM
09/17/13 03:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,723
not somewhere over the rainbow
Pogorelich. Offline
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not somewhere over the rainbow
Originally Posted by Louis Podesta
Originally Posted by debrucey
Loads of people play this piece badly without realising they are. Perhaps this is why it has a reputation for being easy. Mind you, most Grade 7/8/whatever pieces are played badly most of the time. Actually I think it's quite a hard piece.


Very well said.

As proof, I list the following link to a recording of the only American to ever study this piece under the composer, and the first one to play it in public in this country.

If you listen very closely you can hear the arpeggiation and also the asynchronization. This recording was a major inspiration in my news story video.

In addition, it has lead me to a friendship with the only living student of the performer, the composer Ramon Sender, who has verified everything in my video regarding Debussy.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBweTHrOwEU


So funny, before I toggled this post I bet myself $100 that it will be about arpeggiation AND will include a youtube video link.

I win! laugh



"The eyes can mislead, the smile can lie, but the shoes always tell the truth."
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2152261
09/17/13 03:32 PM
09/17/13 03:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
L
Louis Podesta Offline
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L

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Posts: 863
What the video was intended to show, as correctly referenced in the quote, is that everybody plays this piece, and most everybody plays it wrong. They always romanticize it, they usually play it too slow, and the voicing is all over the place.

Come to think of it, that is usually the way most people play Debussy anyway.

If you can present any evidence of another way to play this piece, other than your OPINION, please feel free to enlighten us. This particular performer was entrusted by the composer on several occasions to premier certain of his works.

That is way more good enough for me!

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Pogorelich.] #2152290
09/17/13 04:19 PM
09/17/13 04:19 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 782
Michigan, USA
O
Old Man Offline
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Joined: Apr 2012
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Michigan, USA
Originally Posted by Pogorelich.
Originally Posted by Louis Podesta
Originally Posted by debrucey
Loads of people play this piece badly without realising they are. Perhaps this is why it has a reputation for being easy. Mind you, most Grade 7/8/whatever pieces are played badly most of the time. Actually I think it's quite a hard piece.


Very well said.

As proof, I list the following link to a recording of the only American to ever study this piece under the composer, and the first one to play it in public in this country.

If you listen very closely you can hear the arpeggiation and also the asynchronization. This recording was a major inspiration in my news story video.

In addition, it has lead me to a friendship with the only living student of the performer, the composer Ramon Sender, who has verified everything in my video regarding Debussy.

Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBweTHrOwEU


So funny, before I toggled this post I bet myself $100 that it will be about arpeggiation AND will include a youtube video link.

I win! laugh

And lose! laugh

I made a bet with myself that I'd see a reference to Earl Wild. Losing that one, so far. But the night is young.

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2152294
09/17/13 04:30 PM
09/17/13 04:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,746
Vancouver, B.C.
Vid Offline
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Vid  Offline
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Posts: 1,746
Vancouver, B.C.
Bonus points for betting on "asynchronization"???

crazy


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Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2152375
09/17/13 06:22 PM
09/17/13 06:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
L
Louis Podesta Offline
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Louis Podesta  Offline
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L

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 863
Here is another recorded link of this piece from "Christian Parent," which was posted in PW on 6/26/13. It is a perfect example of block chord Debussy playing with an over-romantic interpretation.

There are, I am just guessing, about a million pianists on this earth who play or who have played this piece in exactly this fashion.

Does that win in any of your 3rd grader bets?


https://soundcloud.com/christian-parent/debussy-clair-de-lune

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBweTHrOwEU

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2249119
03/19/14 10:46 PM
03/19/14 10:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 5
C
Chichi Offline
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Chichi  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 5
Clair de Lune is fairly easy to learn, that is, learning the notes and hitting the keys. My own instructor said it is "easy" to memorize key sequences... but truly making music - interpreting - is a different story smile
If nothing else, difficulty is relative!

Cheers


Nich
Beethoven Sonata Op. 2 No. 1
Debussy Clair de Lune
Rachmaninoff Prelude in C#
Chopin Nocturne Op. 9 No. 1
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Polyphonist] #2249193
03/20/14 03:02 AM
03/20/14 03:02 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 216
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Verbum mirabilis Offline
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Posts: 216
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
This thread is four years old, and has not been posted in for almost a year. It has already been revived from the dead once, as BDB pointed out a year ago after someone had awoken it from a three-year sleep. Why did it have to be revived again?

Next step is to stop posting in it and remember to revive it for a third time in 2015.


I think in 2015 it will already be the fifth time.

Edit: Wait... this is the third time, so 2015 will (hopefully) be the fourth time.

Last edited by Verbum mirabilis; 03/20/14 06:01 AM.

Working on

Chopin: op. 25 no. 11
Haydn: Sonata in in Eb Hob XVI/52
Schumann: Piano concerto 1st movement
Rachmaninoff: op. 39 no. 8

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2249211
03/20/14 04:07 AM
03/20/14 04:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 121
Banned
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compianist1 Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Banned
I completely agree,,

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2249369
03/20/14 09:06 AM
03/20/14 09:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,468
Southwestern Ontario
P
prout Offline
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 4,468
Southwestern Ontario
You're all luney. crazy

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Verbum mirabilis] #2249406
03/20/14 10:38 AM
03/20/14 10:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,161
South Jersey
DameMyra Offline
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DameMyra  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,161
South Jersey
Originally Posted by Verbum mirabilis
Originally Posted by Polyphonist
This thread is four years old, and has not been posted in for almost a year. It has already been revived from the dead once, as BDB pointed out a year ago after someone had awoken it from a three-year sleep. Why did it have to be revived again?

Next step is to stop posting in it and remember to revive it for a third time in 2015.


I think in 2015 it will already be the fifth time.

Edit: Wait... this is the third time, so 2015 will (hopefully) be the fourth time.


Born September 7, 2009
Died September 8, 2009

Resurrected December 13, 2012
Died again December 15, 2012

Resurrected again September 17, 2013
Died, yet again, September 17, 2013

Resurrected, one more time, March 20, 2014

This thread has more lives than John Travolta's movie career!


Private Piano Teacher
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Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2249778
03/20/14 11:47 PM
03/20/14 11:47 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,194
Canada
K
Kuanpiano Offline
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K

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 2,194
Canada
While this thread is up here, the whole Suite Bergamasque is horribly awkward and is much harder technically than it sounds.


Working on:
Chopin - Nocturne op. 48 no.1
Debussy - Images Book II

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2249780
03/20/14 11:58 PM
03/20/14 11:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,382
western MA, USA
H
hreichgott Offline
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H

Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 3,382
western MA, USA
Someone has confused "easy to listen to" with "easy to play" wink


Heather W. Reichgott, piano http://heatherwreichgott.blogspot.com

Working on:
Cabaret (whole show)
12+ variations from classical ballets
Verdi: Stabat Mater
Copland: Appalachian Spring
Tangos and other fun music for piano duo

I love Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven and new music
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2250071
03/21/14 05:16 PM
03/21/14 05:16 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,493
Rehoboth Beach De. USA
Rich D. Offline
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Rehoboth Beach De. USA
To me Claire de lune is easy to play poorly but difficult to play well.

Rich


Retired at the beach

Anton Rubinstein said about the piano: "You think it is one instrument? It is a hundred instruments!"
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2250136
03/21/14 07:26 PM
03/21/14 07:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,656
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Damon Offline
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Joined: Sep 2006
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Nearly everything is difficult to play well.

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2250197
03/21/14 10:22 PM
03/21/14 10:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2013
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joonsang Offline
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In my opinion,

Clair de Lune is not a technically demanding piece, maybe a little technical. With that said, I do not believe it is a piece for everyone. I have heard just about every rendition I could find on this piece and I can say that despite the many different interpretations, there is only one recording which I would say is the gold standard. While it may be wrong to call it perfect, I would say it comes as close as possible.

http://youtu.be/OUx6ZY60uiI?t=7m49s

Dynamics are so important. P crescendo to F has to be structured perfectly for each bar. The tempo is second most important. Tone.

All of these have to be synchronized perfectly and maintained throughout the length.

Most people I hear play this piece are guilty of just playing through the notes without paying attention to the tone, pedal, and the timing of dynamics.

Last edited by joonsang; 03/21/14 10:22 PM.
Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Kuanpiano] #2250353
03/22/14 07:47 AM
03/22/14 07:47 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,063
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Originally Posted by Kuanpiano
While this thread is up here, the whole Suite Bergamasque is horribly awkward and is much harder technically than it sounds.


To echo someone recently banned, I completely agree. I also think the last movement is almost always played much too fast.

There was a thread not too long ago about pianistic music and some people seemed to think Debussy's music was always pianistic. I didn't say anything at the time, but was thinking that their hands must be quite a bit different than mine, because Debussy frequently feels awkward to me, which is one reason I seldom play it (I like hearing others play it, though).

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: Damon] #2250416
03/22/14 10:41 AM
03/22/14 10:41 AM
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TwoSnowflakes Offline
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Originally Posted by Damon
Nearly everything is difficult to play well.


No kidding. I find myself utterly intimidated by some of easiest pieces mostly because now, as an adult, I know how they can sound and utterly hate sounding like a kid plonking away at it. It's why I run in fear from those supposedly "easy" pieces that are thrown to kids, like Fur Elise or Moonlight or Most Any Mozart Sonata, or even Anna Magdalena's Notebook. Of course, the harder stuff is out of my wheelhouse simply based on skill, so it kind of leaves me with precious little to play with confidence.

I am not a huge Debussy fan (who else hears Family Guy now when the word "Debussy" is said?) but would dearly love to play it well. But I will not be attempting Clair de Lune for quite some time.

Re: If Clair de Lune is so "easy"... [Re: TonyY] #2250422
03/22/14 10:58 AM
03/22/14 10:58 AM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 22,273
Victoria, BC
BruceD Offline
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Nothing wrong, I suppose, when an old thread, revived, gains a new life - says he who often caustically comments on the apparent pointless resurrection of old threads!


I think one of the most difficult aspects of some of the more "reflective" Debussy piano works - excluding, of course, those works that have a strong rhythmic drive to them - is to be able to play with considerable flexibility of tempo and yet be able to give them a good sense of forward movement. Too much rubato, and they bog down; to little, and they become mechanical. The "juste milieu" is elusively hard to achieve, yet magical when realized.

Regards,


BruceD
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Estonia 190
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