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Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: JayGVan] #2245209
03/12/14 06:57 AM
03/12/14 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by JayfromRCM
One) You can turn the piano to a specific consistent volume. If you like the volume at say exactly 78. You can select exactly 78. In our piano demo room upstairs at the office here, I found that 82 was perfect for the HP508, and 80 was perfect on the HP504. So I want to go back to that volume every time.

With a slider, if there's a perfect volume, you just leave the slider in one place. If, on the other hand, you need to change the volume e.g. according to changes in ambient sound level, then knowing some precise number isn't going to help you: you need to use your ears, and it's easier with a slider. I think knobs are even better because slider tracks fill up with dust and seem more fragile and unreliable.

I suspect one major reason for the change, which is new for this series, is that there are separate settings for speaker and headphones volumes. This is handy, although, you could just add an extra knob for headphones volume.

One (somewhat disappointing) thing I found when I tried the HP508 was that even at 100 volume, it wasn't very loud. I think I would have it set at 100 permanently. In my opinion, 50 should be as loud as an acoustic, and 100 should knock your socks off. It's one of the simple things that a digital can could do better than an acoustic.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
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Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: JayGVan] #2245211
03/12/14 07:07 AM
03/12/14 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by JayfromRCM
I can confirm that the Same USB slot that acts as the USB Memory stick input, can be used to accomplish MIDI control of devices like a BK-7M (both the 1100 built in tones as well as the accompaniment section). The regular USB/MIDI output will work as well.

Interesting! Why is there no mention of this in the manual, online, or anywhere? Sorry for my scepticism, but have you tried it and seen it working?

Will it also work with an Integra-7 or other sound modules? How about one of those USB -> MIDI cables so you can connect to any MIDI device?

What are Roland's thoughts on the USB-on-the-go standard? It seems this would be a good thing to include as a MIDI port replacement, rather than these less functional USB-to-host ports that most devices have.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2245287
03/12/14 10:48 AM
03/12/14 10:48 AM
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I have tried the connection with the BK-7m and used it for quite awhile in the office, as I was helping a customer out here in Canada. So yes, I can confirm that it does in fact work.

I have yet to try the connection with an Integra-7 or SD-50. I don't have an Integra-7 handy to try it out with. If a demonstrator model pops up in the next little while here, and I have the time, I will give it a go and report back.

With regards to your last question, I don't know the answer.


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2245346
03/12/14 11:53 AM
03/12/14 11:53 AM
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Cool, thanks. It does seem weird that this functionality is totally undocumented, as it must have taken some effort to implement, and it will appease some people who are put off buying by the lack of MIDI (me for example).

@Hideki-san maybe you could try connecting your LX to your Jupiter via the USB port and see if it works!

Last edited by lolatu; 03/12/14 11:55 AM.

Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
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Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: lolatu] #2245476
03/12/14 04:08 PM
03/12/14 04:08 PM
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Hideki Matsui Offline
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Originally Posted by lolatu
Cool, thanks. It does seem weird that this functionality is totally undocumented, as it must have taken some effort to implement, and it will appease some people who are put off buying by the lack of MIDI (me for example).

@Hideki-san maybe you could try connecting your LX to your Jupiter via the USB port and see if it works!


Will check this out today and report back. Would be huge if I could link my Jupiter and LX via USB.


Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2245843
03/13/14 09:09 AM
03/13/14 09:09 AM
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Wuffski Offline
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I have 4 questions to owners of a DP from the new HP series:

1) According to what I could see from commercials about the new HP series, there seem to be now buttons selecting piano sound groups "Grand Pianos" and "Upright Pianos"? With 14 Grand Piano sounds? Anybody has a list of those sounds? Really new piano sounds? Or again something like 1 principal sound with 3 different EQ, and all others being blends only of such piano with strings or other noise in the background? Are the "Early Pianos" still present in the new HP series?


2) Could somebody please test if the metronome speed now stays at the last interactively set speed when changing between normal playing mode and recording mode and leaving the recording mode with saving the recorded song and leaving the recording mode without saving the recorded song?
The older series obviously has 4 different memories for each of these scenarios and the way those memories become cross-updated - or not - just makes you mad. Is the metronome setting / are the metronome settings now remembered after powering off/on the unit, or still become reset to a default value each time powering off/on the instrument?
I first placed a written note on my piano with the information about all these crazy behaviours, in order to become guided on how to play and record with the build in metronome / when to re-program it to my speed because it intelligently helpful forced me to go back to a speed which I have had in use half an hour ago when last being in a scenario / when to re-program it again, right after I have had it programed seconds ago, but skipped to record the record and therefore am back at the default value...
Finally I gave up and bought an external metronome. This is set to a speed, and unless I change it it stays at that speed. So simple. Simple as it should be also for the build in metronome. I just needed to get used to the distraction, that during a recording session at my speed set to my metronome, the internal metronome (even if not called by me to become active) during recording always blinks (although not sounds) at its own speed.
Anyone with good news about a new metronome implementation? I really donŽt understand how the ROLAND service could answer me on my request to improve something here, that [in words to that effect] it would have to be like it is, would make sense to be like it is, and could not be changed. But I am of hope that a wonder happened!



3) Did the "Others" sounds become reorganized, so that all electric organ sounds are grouped in a close neighborhood now, all pipe/church organs sounds are grouped in a close neighborhood now, etc. ? Or is the instruments placing in the memory still interrupted by other instrument sounds and interactively switching sounds within variations of an instrument of interest is still not quickly possible by just stepping up and down but continous to need stepping i.e. 15 steps up and down to change between related sounds?
Any new organ sounds?


4) When playing with the speakers at lower volumes, or if setting the key weight to higher values, does the piano now keeps its clear sound as it beautifully has it at default key weight setting and medium to loud speaker use, or does it still tends to sound muffled, then?


If these 4 points would have become improved, I would seriously consider to upgrade to the 506, in order to receive what I expected to receive already when purchasing my current 505. No complains at all about the principal sound and touch, though.

Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2245894
03/13/14 10:43 AM
03/13/14 10:43 AM
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I don't own one but I have the HP508 manual downloaded (get it from the Roland site - you may have to register).

1) Pasting from the manual:

1 ConcertPiano The sound of a splendid concert grand piano. This piano sound has our highest recommendation, and can be used for any style of music.
2 BalladePiano A mellow grand piano sound, recommended for quiet songs.
3 Bright Piano A brilliant grand piano sound, recommended when you want the piano to stand out in an ensemble.
4 MagicalPiano A charming sound that layers synth bells with Concert.
5 Piano + Str. Strings layered with Concert.
6 Piano + Pad A pad layered with Concert.
7 Piano+Choir A choir layered with Concert.
8 Pure Piano A grand piano sound notable for its clarity. When using headphones, this will sound the same as the ConcertPiano.
9 Fortepiano An early type of piano with a distinctive sound that’s somewhat different than today’s pianos.
10 Mellow Forte A mellow FortePno (Forte Piano) sound.
11 Bright Forte A brilliant FortePno (Forte Piano) sound.
12 Dolcechord A dream-like sound that can sound like a piano or a harpsichord.
13 Harpsichord A type of keyboard instrument widely used in Baroque music, producing a delicate sound.
14 Harpsi 8'+4' The sound of a harpsichord layered with sound an higher octave.

Looks like 1-3 are the same piano with different EQ (I thought that was what the brillance control was for?), 4-7 are goofy layered sounds (isn't this what pressing 2 buttons at once is for?), 8 is the same as 1 without reverb (hey, there's a reverb control for this!), 9-11 are a FortePiano with differet EQ settings, 13 is a harpsichord, and 12/14 are more layerings.

So there aren't 14 Grand Pianos... there is 1, along with a bunch of fluff. This is a real shame IMO - it's not like Roland don't have multiple high quality SN pianos - I think the RD700NX has 3? And the HP series pianos are just as expensive as the RDs.

2) Don't know about the recording thing, but it's the same in my FP-3 so it's been like that for at least 12 years... I would be surprised if they'd changed it. As for memory backup, the list of parameters stored doesn't include metronome speed - and even if it did, you'd have to do a memory backup to store it, which would overwrite all your other backed up parameters to whatever they happen to be currently... seriously, Roland need to sort out registrations. What's the point in having a piano designer where you can tweak 17 different settings and all 88 keys... but you only have 1 slot to save them in, which will apply to all the piano sounds on the instrument?

3) No, still in weird nonsensical order smile

4) Don't know but I don't think the speaker system changed in this update.


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: lolatu] #2245912
03/13/14 11:21 AM
03/13/14 11:21 AM
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JayGVan Offline
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Originally Posted by lolatu

Looks like 1-3 are the same piano with different EQ (I thought that was what the brillance control was for?), 4-7 are goofy layered sounds (isn't this what pressing 2 buttons at once is for?), 8 is the same as 1 without reverb (hey, there's a reverb control for this!), 9-11 are a FortePiano with differet EQ settings, 13 is a harpsichord, and 12/14 are more layerings.

So there aren't 14 Grand Pianos... there is 1, along with a bunch of fluff. This is a real shame IMO - it's not like Roland don't have multiple high quality SN pianos - I think the RD700NX has 3? And the HP series pianos are just as expensive as the RDs.



Hi guys,

Allow me to clarify. This isn't one SuperNatural Piano Tone only.

The Concert, Ballade and Bright Pianos don't just feature a different EQ curve or setting. They are 3 different piano instruments in their own right. With varying tonal colours and reactions to the playing inputs of the pianist.

The 3 main Upright Tones are also all SuperNatural based.

The response and overtones/resonances on the Bright Grand are markedly different than the Ballade Grand and very different to the Concert Grand.

You would have a much better impression of the difference between the three tones by sitting at the piano and experiencing the difference as opposed to reading from the owners manual.

I hope this helps.

Jay



Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2245918
03/13/14 11:32 AM
03/13/14 11:32 AM
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OK thanks for the clarification. But they're still variations on the same sample, whereas the RD700NX/RD800 have multiple samples, for Concert, Studio Grand, and others, right?


Kawai CA95 / Steinberg UR22 / Sony MDR-7506 / Pianoteq Stage + Grotrian / Galaxy Vintage D / CFX Lite
In the loft: Roland FP3 / Tannoy Reveal Active / K&M 18810
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: lolatu] #2245931
03/13/14 11:51 AM
03/13/14 11:51 AM
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I would have to seek clarification on that to be 100% sure.

I guess to me the real question here probably should be is if the tone and response is pleasing to the individual player? Regardless of whether there are individual sample sets or not.

With the combination of modelling and sampling, there is so much possibility to create different tones from one starting point.

The individual note voicing (Character, Resonances, Micro tuning and Volume) capabilities in the Piano Designer on the RD and HP's really means your starting point is just that. A starting point.

I can turn the Concert Grand, into a completely new instrument by tweaking the different parameters offered. On both the HP508 and the RD800. And end up with a sound that's uniquely "mine".

Sometimes, I feel like specification becomes so important to some people, that playability and tonal quality get left behind. When really a specification isn't necessarily "musical" per se.

I wrote some thoughts on the RD800 right before I left for NAMM. You can read a bit more on that if you like.

http://rolandblog.ca/create-piano-tone/

Last edited by Jay Roland; 03/13/14 11:53 AM.

Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2245947
03/13/14 12:10 PM
03/13/14 12:10 PM
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So, for organization of the user interface it is merged the "Early Pianos" with the "Grand Pianos" now, to a now bigger "Grands" group. All sounds in there are unchanged and the same as in the former HP series.
Then, a new group "Uprights" appeared where before the button was reserved for the "Early Pianos", if I read it correctly from the commercials, and that sound with its variations would be something new.
The user interface and connectivity is at some points updated to the needs of the clients. I like the new volume limit functionality, and especially that volume for speakers and headphones can be saved as separate values, according to what I so far could read on the internet.
Well, some more silent PHA-4 keys indeed make me curious, but as I am happy with my PHA-III and have no issue with them thumping out "too" loud, as others have it, I guess it is not enough arguments for me to leave my 505. IŽll go on enjoying it and see if the future will bring something pleasing the always tickling GAS.

Last edited by Marco M; 03/13/14 12:45 PM. Reason: removed bold formation of certain phrases in order to avoid any wrong accentuation of the content; removed one sentence for the same reason.
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Wuffski] #2245949
03/13/14 12:17 PM
03/13/14 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Marco M
IŽll go on enjoying it and see if the future will bring something pleasing the always tickling GAS, because the newer HP serie, besides the mentioned points, appear to be the same as before without further, significant upgrades.


Marco M,

I definitely recommend that you should go play an HP506 right after you play your 505. Although the changes maybe don't look "on paper" like a significant upgrade, They're all a definitive enhancement of the overall experience. Even if you decide not to upgrade, that's ok.

I've played the HP507 and 508 right next to each other. And the difference between the two is remarkable. Even though the specifications on paper don't say that they should be that markedly different, they are.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2245958
03/13/14 12:23 PM
03/13/14 12:23 PM
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Jay, you mention in you blog "the new piano engine", that "It is different...", and then "The very first default Piano Patch that is dialed up when you switch on the RD-800 is the Concert Grand. Redesigned from the ground up, it lays the foundation for our new tone".
It sounds in the blog, that this new engine would also be the engine now in use in the new HPs. Thus, the new HP tones are different, improved in comparison to the old HP tones? But they stay named the same? Did I get this correctly?

Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Wuffski] #2245963
03/13/14 12:34 PM
03/13/14 12:34 PM
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Yessir.

To allow for all the individual note voicing and other adjustability, the newer engine was used in the new HP's.

Because of the different applications for an HP piano and an RD Piano, the engine is not exactly the same between the two instruments. But at it's core, the improvements were shared.

So the short answer is yes, the Concert, Ballade and Bright Grand pianos, although given the same name, are different than their predecessors on the HP507 etc.

Jay


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2245969
03/13/14 12:40 PM
03/13/14 12:40 PM
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Marco,

Also note that the new pianos have an adjustable parameter for Dynamic Harmonic, which I don't believe existed on the prior series.

The PH4 feels great and has a noticeably softer landing than the PH3. The texture on the keys feel perfect and the action is extremely precise and responsive.

I'm not sure if the underlying attack sample is the same, but the different pianos on my LXe sound very different. The ballad piano is perfect for accompanying a vocalist and the concert sounds like a beautiful, woody Steinway. Also, with the multitude of adjustable parameters you can dramatically change the sound of each piano.


Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2245971
03/13/14 12:40 PM
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Thanks, Jay! Great having you on board!
Thanks, Hideki, as well!!
IŽll edit my former post and remove the bold highlighting in there, as well as the last sentence, because such accentuation seem to be not justified, then.

Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Wuffski] #2245975
03/13/14 12:51 PM
03/13/14 12:51 PM
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Marco,

Regarding your previous comment about muffled sound at low volumes. Any system will sound different at lower volumes unless it makes on-the-fly EQ adjustments to account for the Fletcher-Munson effect. That being said, I haven't had an issue with the quality of sound at any volume on the LX-15e. I usually don't go lower than 55%.


Shigeru Kawai SK5
Vintage Vibe 64
Roland LX-15e
Roland Jupiter 80
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2246009
03/13/14 02:28 PM
03/13/14 02:28 PM
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Thanks Marco, It's really good to be here!

I love talking about these instruments as much as I love playing them!


Formerly in the business. Now just a piano fan.
Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: Kawai James] #2246370
03/14/14 06:08 AM
03/14/14 06:08 AM
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"Any system will sound different at lower volumes unless it makes on-the-fly EQ adjustments to account for the Fletcher-Munson effect."

A bone of contention with me at the moment. Yamaha do this "IAC" (Intelligent Acoustic Control); now when I have it on there`s a choice of 7 settings which are supposed to achieve what you describe, to the degree the user would select. Nice to have a choice, you might think.

Trouble is, it makes NO difference; And when you switch it off, it also - makes no difference! So I don`t really know what it does . . .Ha ha (shrug) whether it operates through headphones or not seems immaterial somehow! Have to ask Fletcher Munsen if I bump into `im..


"I am not a man. I am a free number"

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Re: New Roland digitals: HP508, HP506, HP504 [Re: peterws] #2246556
03/14/14 01:12 PM
03/14/14 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by peterws
"Any system will sound different at lower volumes unless it makes on-the-fly EQ adjustments to account for the Fletcher-Munson effect."

A bone of contention with me at the moment. Yamaha do this "IAC" (Intelligent Acoustic Control); now when I have it on there`s a choice of 7 settings which are supposed to achieve what you describe, to the degree the user would select. Nice to have a choice, you might think.

Trouble is, it makes NO difference; And when you switch it off, it also - makes no difference! So I don`t really know what it does . . .Ha ha (shrug) whether it operates through headphones or not seems immaterial somehow! Have to ask Fletcher Munsen if I bump into `im..

Makes no difference. It's working then! wink

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