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#2241672 - 03/05/14 01:28 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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On another note I'm still not convinced that the bass has any character or liveliness. I prefer a bit more grit or earthy quality to my bass and when listening to both the Un Sospiro and Chopin Nocturne the bass seemed completely lacking. Can anyone confirm? When I listened to the TK Italian sample of the Hungarian Rhapsody it sounded much better in this regard. Is it just the samples that are throwing me off? The Nocturne did have somewhat of an electronic sound to it. It did sound quite lovely at the end, both the quality of the tone and the sustain. At the same time I would bet it would be interesting to hear the same music on the real acoustic version as a point of reference.

I'm warming to it but I wish I had more time for the $150 price point or a trial period (to justify the $200). wink

I have to admit, the samples sound better and better the more I hear them (they are playing in the background as I'm posting). The occasional moments I don't like are somewhat overshadowed by the overall impression. More often than not it sounds really impressive.

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#2241675 - 03/05/14 01:33 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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My impressions so far. This piano responds beautifully. The difference in articulation between staccato and legato is clearly rendered. The key response is even. The gradations between ppp and fff are smooth, along with a realistic/natural change in timbre. I would describe the sound as veering toward the "metallic" rather than the "woody" end of the spectrum - but not overly so. There is a wide degree of control over the sound, although I found that judicious and minimal adjustments are best, so as to prevent a loss in authenticity. The room mics are nice to have, but I found the close mic'd sound to be the most natural for live (non-recorded) playing.

Do I like it? I think so. At the moment I'm adjusting to the sound. It's very different from Steinway, and even Yamaha. Surprisingly, it's not a huge sound - doesn't shout "9-foot grand" when you play it. It has both delicacy and power, but not so much of the supercharged rumble you might expect.

All issues that I have had have been related to the UVI/ASIO implementation. A couple of freezes/crashes have occurred, and I have also completely ruled out ASIO4ALL with it. I have been successful using an Alesis Multimix 8 USB 2.0 interface. The only issue I have encountered with this has been occasional saturation/stuttering, which can probably be remedied with a couple of tweaks, and may be more to do with the specs of the Surface Pro I'm running on. However, when I tried using it with an earlier model of the Multimix that uses USB 1.1, it saw the Alesis mixer, but failed to recognize the PX-5S I was using as a controller, and emitted no sound, even from the software's own virtual keyboard. As a reference, Pianoteq has no problems with ASIO4ALL, nor with either of the Alesis units. As a result, I doubt whether I'll be using it live, unfortunately. As mentioned above in one of the posts, I think the UVI part of this could use a little more ASIO development.

Conclusion? For a sampled VST, it performs remarkably well. I think it needs plenty of horsepower and a compatible ASIO device. Some people obviously have no problem with the implementation, and so it would be useful if VI Labs could publish a compatibility list, showing devices/apps that are known to perform well, and those that have issues.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2241679 - 03/05/14 01:40 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Pathbreaker]  
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Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
On another note I'm still not convinced that the bass has any character or liveliness. I prefer a bit more grit or earthy quality to my bass and when listening to both the Un Sospiro and Chopin Nocturne the bass seemed completely lacking. Can anyone confirm?

No, the bass is not huge. This is a little surprising, given the length of the original's bass strings. In one sense, this is a plus, in that the bottom end won't overpower the treble. It is a well defined bass that is not at all muddy.


"you don't need to have been a rabbit in order to become a veterinarian"

mabraman, 2015
#2241683 - 03/05/14 01:51 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: voxpops]  
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Originally Posted by voxpops
Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
On another note I'm still not convinced that the bass has any character or liveliness. I prefer a bit more grit or earthy quality to my bass and when listening to both the Un Sospiro and Chopin Nocturne the bass seemed completely lacking. Can anyone confirm?

No, the bass is not huge. This is a little surprising, given the length of the original's bass strings. In one sense, this is a plus, in that the bottom end won't overpower the treble. It is a well defined bass that is not at all muddy.


That makes a lot of sense and it's really encouraging. "Well defined" is what I'm hoping for. I've also bothered to listen to the rest of the samples. Not sure why I hadn't bothered to do that as there's some wonderful performances there. And I've effectively increased the sample size so that I have a much better idea of the software's capabilities.

At the risk of sounding needy, can someone help me understand the difference between the mechanics of this type of modelled (?) software piano and a normal digital piano such as the Roland RP301. Are both using samples as the source of the sound? Would a software piano such as this be a no-brainer upgrade or are there some serious drawbacks to go with it? (besides the apparent time needed for tweaking)

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#2241692 - 03/05/14 02:01 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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Joke of the day;
I cancelled my order on Feb 17th., got a FULL refund a day or two later.
I checked my account on their web site, it showed the order, the payment, the cancellation, all seemed FINE and settled.
I have been a bit on the fence about it since and I think I have until the end of today to jump back in at the discount price.

Yesterday they sent me a mail message with the subject; "The Ravenscroft 275 is in your account!"
OK, that must be a mistake, but I read the message anyway.
Sure enough,
"Thank you all for ordering the Ravenscroft 275 and for your patience.
We have some great news for you, the Ravenscroft 275 library is available in your account.
You can find all of the necessary information to install the Ravenscroft 275 on this page: http://www.vilabsaudio.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=13"

Just in case, I checked, there are no outstanding downloads there laugh

Some mailing lists you just CAN'T get off of.

#2241696 - 03/05/14 02:10 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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I'd like to hear comparisons from someone that has been using the Vintage D or the Ivory II American D (or German D) as their primary piano.




Macy

CVP-409GP, Garritan CFX, Vintage D, Ivory II GP's & American Concert D, Pianoteq, True Keys American D, Ravenscroft 275, Garritan Authorized Steinway, Alicia's Keys, EWQL Pianos, MainStage, iPad Pro/forScore/PageFlip Cicada, Custom Mac MIDI/Audio Software Design, Macs Everywhere
#2241699 - 03/05/14 02:16 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Pathbreaker]  
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Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
Originally Posted by voxpops
Originally Posted by Pathbreaker
On another note I'm still not convinced that the bass has any character or liveliness. I prefer a bit more grit or earthy quality to my bass and when listening to both the Un Sospiro and Chopin Nocturne the bass seemed completely lacking. Can anyone confirm?

No, the bass is not huge. This is a little surprising, given the length of the original's bass strings. In one sense, this is a plus, in that the bottom end won't overpower the treble. It is a well defined bass that is not at all muddy.


That makes a lot of sense and it's really encouraging. "Well defined" is what I'm hoping for. I've also bothered to listen to the rest of the samples. Not sure why I hadn't bothered to do that as there's some wonderful performances there. And I've effectively increased the sample size so that I have a much better idea of the software's capabilities.

At the risk of sounding needy, can someone help me understand the difference between the mechanics of this type of modelled (?) software piano and a normal digital piano such as the Roland RP301. Are both using samples as the source of the sound? Would a software piano such as this be a no-brainer upgrade or are there some serious drawbacks to go with it? (besides the apparent time needed for tweaking)


THIS isn't "modeled", it is a "sample library".
In principle it is very similar to current "digital pianos", in implementation the main difference is;

It is run by a program that is loaded into a general purpose "home" scale computer.
That program receives midi messages that signal which samples to "play" at what volume and when to turn them off, which it does.
In contrast a DP is more likely to have a smaller imbedded single purpose computer and plays from a usually smaller RAM.

They both play "recordings" of piano sounds.


"Modeled" players, e.g. V-piano, physis, pianoteq, etc "compute" the waveform that is to be played in "real time", although it is likely that some pre-processing is done.

Not done yet laugh
There are hybrid implementations as well, some think those will "win out" in the mid/long term.

Not clear that there are any sampled pianos that are 100 percent samples only, or that the modeled pianos have NO sampling included, e.g. for "noises" (simulated bumps and thumps of the mechanical bits flying around and hitting each other).

Last edited by R_B; 03/05/14 02:24 PM.
#2241704 - 03/05/14 02:23 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Macy]  
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Guys, I'm posting here my first demo of Ravenscroft Piano. Not perfect, but it's the best piano sampler available so far, I believe.
The recording was made in a Kawai VPC1, and the piano has no Reverb, no effect. It is more natural than others piano samplers.
Ravenscroft PIano Demo
The Vintage D seemed to be good, but it is totally unnatural, compared to Ravenscroft.
Vintage D Demo

Last edited by Baldassi; 03/05/14 02:29 PM.

Grand Piano Suzuki AG600/ Kawai VPC1 Piano Controller/ Galaxy Vintage D Piano/ Ravenscroft Piano Sample
#2241705 - 03/05/14 02:27 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Kawai James]  
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Speaking of that James, I have a question regarding the VPC1 that was in the Ravenscroft booth vs what was in the Kawai booth. The action on the VPC1 that Ravenscroft had was like butter! It was MUCH lighter, faster, and overall extremely responsive when compared with the one in the company booth. Did Kawai do a custom action job for the unit that Ravenscroft/VI Lab's were using to demo the Ravenscroft VI?

#2241711 - 03/05/14 02:38 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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I remember reading that it was modified for the ravenscroft sw, for namm.
Maybe by the ravenscroft dude?

#2241713 - 03/05/14 02:42 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: minstrelman]  
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Comparation: RAvenscroft vs. Vintage D
Ravenscroft vs.
Vintage D


Grand Piano Suzuki AG600/ Kawai VPC1 Piano Controller/ Galaxy Vintage D Piano/ Ravenscroft Piano Sample
#2241714 - 03/05/14 02:46 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: AZ_Astro]  
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Originally Posted by AZ_Astro
I have installed everything... but no joy yet.

Since I have an iLok for Ivory II the process of registering the VILabs-Ravenscroft license at iLok, logging in to iLok, and copying/dragging the license to my iLok key went fine. When I run the iLok License Manager, I can see the license on my key.

I already had UVI Workstation and that is working fine with the Kawai EX PRO sampled piano.

And the unpacking process of the Ravenscroft data files went fine as well. So now I have the 35 GB Ravenscroft275.ufs file sitting there waiting.

When I start UVI workstation, browse/navigate and double-click on the .ufs file, however, I am getting an error ("no valid authorization found") even though I have transferred the license to my iLok key.

I'll reboot and test again tomorrow. I don't have time to troubleshoot any more today.



A quick update.

I checked the release dates for UVI Workstation and, sure enough, I had an old version. So deinstalled the old version and downloaded and installed the new UVI Workstation (version 2.20 x64 bit). Worked like a champ!

So I was able to play my first few notes with the Ravenscroft sampled piano and my first impression was very positive. There is a distinctive clarity to the sound, especially in the mid to high range of the keyboard. I guess I am responding to what I am hearing as a very pure sound. I have heard it called "silky" and "silvery" and I can go along with those adjectives.

It does seem admirably suited to jazz. I play primarily classical so I will withhold judgement for now on how suitable the Ravenscroft is for classical. There are still a lot of knobs to twist and tweak!

But - kudos to VI LABS for what appears to be a very fine instrument.

More later.


Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2241719 - 03/05/14 02:55 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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Responding to some things that Voxpops said:

"The gradations between ppp and fff are smooth, along with a realistic/natural change in timbre. "

This is noticable to me as well. I like the dynamics of this piano.

"I would describe the sound as veering toward the "metallic" rather than the "woody" end of the spectrum - but not overly so. "

Again, I agree.

Last edited by AZ_Astro; 03/05/14 02:56 PM.

Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2241734 - 03/05/14 03:05 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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Guys, I followed the install instructions without problems, macbook 10.7.5. I hear the dp being played thru phones, but pressing a single key, and hold it down, it produces multiple key strikes rapidly, and the tone of the keys are too high, not at all like a piano.

I've changed nothing from all presets.

Any quick ideas to help me get this going? Btw, I have zero experience with any virtual software.
Thanks
Chris


Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.

New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.
#2241738 - 03/05/14 03:11 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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Chris:

Check a setting in UVI Workstation.

I produced an effect like what you are describing by:

Clicking on the two eight notes (top right) and enabling that screen, then hitting a few notes.

To turn it off, click the highlighted ENABLE button.

Give it a try!?

Last edited by AZ_Astro; 03/05/14 03:12 PM.

Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2241741 - 03/05/14 03:14 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Chrisl]  
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Originally Posted by Chrisl
Guys, I followed the install instructions without problems, macbook 10.7.5. I hear the dp being played thru phones, but pressing a single key, and hold it down, it produces multiple key strikes rapidly, and the tone of the keys are too high, not at all like a piano.

I've changed nothing from all presets.

Any quick ideas to help me get this going? Btw, I have zero experience with any virtual software.
Thanks
Chris



Download the Pianoteq demo and see if you can get that to work.

Then you will know more.



Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
#2241753 - 03/05/14 03:39 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: AZ_Astro]  
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Originally Posted by AZ_Astro
Chris:

Check a setting in UVI Workstation.

I produced an effect like what you are describing by:

Clicking on the two eight notes (top right) and enabling that screen, then hitting a few notes.

To turn it off, click the highlighted ENABLE button.

Give it a try!?


Fantastic! That did it Az Astro!! Thank You Very Much!


Yamaha P105, Ravenscroft275, Ivory II Am Concert D, Sennheiser HD650.

New sound setup: Midi out to macbook, FW 800 to Metric Halo LIO 8 DAC to HD650's. Very Nice.
#2241754 - 03/05/14 03:44 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Baldassi]  
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Originally Posted by Baldassi
Comparation: RAvenscroft vs. Vintage D
Ravenscroft vs.
Vintage D


Thanks!
For me Ravenscroft hands down wins, however it has very unique sound character

#2241759 - 03/05/14 03:49 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: kapelli]  
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More one Demo with Ravenscroft exploring the basses...very good...
Ravenscroft exploring the basses...


Grand Piano Suzuki AG600/ Kawai VPC1 Piano Controller/ Galaxy Vintage D Piano/ Ravenscroft Piano Sample
#2241769 - 03/05/14 04:05 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Baldassi]  
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Originally Posted by Baldassi
More one Demo with Ravenscroft exploring the basses...very good...
Ravenscroft exploring the basses...


That sounds really good. Which Ravenscroft mic setup were you using?

#2241772 - 03/05/14 04:17 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: dire tonic]  
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I'm using close in the max volume, and room mic one trait down of the max volume. More or less this configuration.


Grand Piano Suzuki AG600/ Kawai VPC1 Piano Controller/ Galaxy Vintage D Piano/ Ravenscroft Piano Sample
#2241774 - 03/05/14 04:20 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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Well, I finally have it and have it all installed and working! I was a little concerned having read some of the others experiences, but my experience was great. First off let me explain that I work in a PC environment, and and have a pretty stout machine. 8 core processor, 32 GB Ram, 250GB SSD boot-primary drive, and a 2 TB drive for Tracks from my DAW (SONAR) and anything else. I also have a 50Mbs internet connection which did help drastically with the downloads. I used WINRAR to extract the first RAR file then after installing the UVI engine and the iLok management software (Which is free!), I activated my license within iLok and ran the install. WinRar is smart enough to handle the other files, so I just sat back and let it do its thing.

VI Labs have made some improvements since NAMM for sure. The first change I noticed was in some of the graphics. Probably not of much interest to most, but it did show they had done additional work on it after NAMM.

Initially I had to make some changes to my settings. I had to actually back them down. I ended up with my buffers set to 64 and lowered the sample rate as well. Frankly that seemed a little counter intuitive, but in the end that is what worked for me.

Once I had it dialed in then it was fun time! It was even better than I had remembered it, plus I am sure VI Labs did some tweaking after getting feedback at NAMM.

All in all, I stand by my earlier statements, I still think this is the best thing on the market period. Not everyone is going to agree, that's why we have multiple manufacturers making the same thing, everyone does it just a little different, and we each choose what set of differences we each one individually prefer. Yep, I think VI Labs hit one out of the park with the Ravenscroft!

Oh one more thing, going to the YouTube page and watching the installation video was a help. You can find it here:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ5ghbukCo_TjzZE4spxDGg

Last edited by Audiofreak; 03/05/14 04:25 PM.
#2241775 - 03/05/14 04:23 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Macy]  
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Originally Posted by Macy
I'd like to hear comparisons from someone that has been using the Vintage D or the Ivory II American D (or German D) as their primary piano.





IMO the Vintage D sounds dated and unnatural compared the modern modern sampled pianos. Vintage D sounds a bit artificial and when I go back to it now it reminds me in some ways of an onbard DP sound. I haven't used it in a long time, and I probably won't really ever use it again.

So I personally feel there's not much comparison.

I can't speak for the Ivory.

Here's a couple more of my thoughts on the Vintage D :
http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2220054/3.html

Last edited by chicolom; 03/05/14 05:56 PM.

Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli
#2241776 - 03/05/14 04:24 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Baldassi]  
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Originally Posted by Baldassi
I'm using close in the max volume, and room mic one trait down of the max volume. More or less this configuration.


- thanks for that! Nice harmonies, very impressive contrasts!

#2241822 - 03/05/14 05:49 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Baldassi]  
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Originally Posted by Baldassi
Guys, I'm posting here my first demo of Ravenscroft Piano. Not perfect, but it's the best piano sampler available so far, I believe.
The recording was made in a Kawai VPC1, and the piano has no Reverb, no effect. It is more natural than others piano samplers.
Ravenscroft PIano Demo
The Vintage D seemed to be good, but it is totally unnatural, compared to Ravenscroft.
Vintage D Demo


Thank you for posting this comparison. The Vintage D sounded better than I have generally given it credit for, and the two pianos had distinctive (and very different) voices.



Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2241824 - 03/05/14 05:50 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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I tried hosting UVI inside a DAW and I can confirm that this works much better than trying to get UVI to work standalone. UVI standalone has got some serious ASIO output problems, but hosting it inside the DAW seems to bypass that and let the DAW handle the ASIO output.

So: If you're having issues with UVI and ASIO...TRY USING IT INSIDE A DAW

Looks like I'll be using UVI inside a DAW from now on, unless UVI gets updated with a fix for its ASIO problems.

Last edited by chicolom; 03/05/14 05:51 PM.

Kawai MP6 | Ravenscroft 275 | True Keys American & Italian | Galaxy Vintage D, II, & Giant | Old Black Grand | Imperfect Fazioli
#2241825 - 03/05/14 05:52 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: Baldassi]  
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AZ_Astro Offline
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AZ_Astro  Offline
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Tempe, Arizona
Originally Posted by Baldassi
More one Demo with Ravenscroft exploring the basses...very good...
Ravenscroft exploring the basses...


Well - that is pretty spectacular and the demo shows off the Ravenscroft sampled piano in a very positive light.



Kawai KG-5. Korg SP-250. Software pianos: Garritan CFX, Ivory II, Ivory Am D, Ravenscroft, Galaxy Vintage D, Alicia's Keys, et al.
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#2241839 - 03/05/14 06:15 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: chicolom]  
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dmd Offline
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Pennsylvania
Originally Posted by chicolom
I tried hosting UVI inside a DAW and I can confirm that this works much better than trying to get UVI to work standalone. UVI standalone has got some serious ASIO output problems, but hosting it inside the DAW seems to bypass that and let the DAW handle the ASIO output.

So: If you're having issues with UVI and ASIO...TRY USING IT INSIDE A DAW

Looks like I'll be using UVI inside a DAW from now on, unless UVI gets updated with a fix for its ASIO problems.


Well, let's be careful not to mislead others ...

I am not using it inside of a DAW and everything works perfectly. Maybe the issue is not ASIO.


Don

Current: ES8, ProFX8 Mixer, Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 audio device, SennHeiser HD598 Phones, Focal CMS 40 Powered Monitors, JBL LSR305 Powered Monitors, Pianoteq 5,TruePiano,Ravenscroft275,TrueKeys American,Galaxy Vintage D,Ivory II,Alicia's Keys,CFX Concert Grand, The Grandeur
#2241841 - 03/05/14 06:23 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
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kapelli Offline
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Poland
It's damn close to a real thing!
but, what I am loosing still, is the lack of air in all the sampled pianos.. don't know how to call it properly, but I know that you know what I tam talking about wink

#2241842 - 03/05/14 06:25 PM Re: Ravenscroft by VI Labs… First Look and Sound [Re: HisKidd]  
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 198
HisKidd Offline
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HisKidd  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 198
AL/USA
dmd…

I asked earlier why you thought your downloading, setup, and playing went smoothly while several others had problems. Perhaps that post got lost in the shuffle. Care to comment?

Thanks in advance…



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