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#2242607 - 03/07/14 12:52 PM 2+ octave run technique  
Joined: Apr 2011
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Arizona Sage Offline
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Arizona Sage  Offline
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Arizona, USA, Earth
Whether it's scalar or arpeggio, I find single octave movements come with relative ease, but when I stretch to 2 octave (repeating pattern) runs I have the coordination of a bull in a china shop. I can only imagine that this is a hurdle that all pianists must overcome. My questions are, how?...and what exercises might I employ to strengthen my confidence?

An example would be a simple C minor blues run: C, Eb, F, Gb, G, Bb. What would the recommended fingering be to facilitate a multi-octave repeated pattern?

Another example is a C major scale (which works great when only one octave is used). I find my pinky (RH)on the octave. Is there a better way to finger the scale to allow for a seamless 2 scale or more run up and down?

Any advice or guidance would be most appreciated as I'm primarily self taught and want to address this for all scales and pentatonics.


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#2242614 - 03/07/14 01:02 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]  
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Polyphonist Online content
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Polyphonist  Online Content
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Originally Posted by Arizona Sage
Another example is a C major scale (which works great when only one octave is used). I find my pinky (RH)on the octave. Is there a better way to finger the scale to allow for a seamless 2 scale or more run up and down?

1231234 and repeat.


Regards,

Polyphonist
#2242617 - 03/07/14 01:06 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Polyphonist]  
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Arizona Sage Offline
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How about descending a C maj scale?


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#2242630 - 03/07/14 01:27 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]  
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Polyphonist Online content
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Polyphonist  Online Content
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Starting on B, 4321321 and repeat.


Regards,

Polyphonist
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#2242633 - 03/07/14 01:30 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]  
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Arizona Sage Offline
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Thank you! Essentially leaving the pinky out of the mix entirely.


Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

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#2242665 - 03/07/14 02:39 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]  
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Ataru074 Offline
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C major scale

1) hand separate
2) slow
3) start on each single note of the scale and go up 2 octaves
4) start on each single note of the scale and go down 2 octaves
5) use different rhythmic combinations:
5.a) 1/4 1/4 1/16 /16
5.b) 1/4 1/16 1/16 1/4
5.c) 1/16 1/16 1/4 1/4
5.d) 1/16 1/4 1/4 1/16
6) do it forte
7) do it piano
8) do it crescendo
9) do it diminuendo

get a book of scales for the fingering.

on your blues example... depends on many factors ( speed and control for example )
I'd do either (RH) 131213 or 131234
(LH) 121312 or 121432






Private Piano Teacher. MTNA
working on:
Albeniz: Iberia
Beethoven: Op 53
Bartok: Mikrokosmos vol. 5
Debussy: Estampes
Moszkowski: Op 72
#2242677 - 03/07/14 03:00 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Ataru074]  
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Arizona Sage Offline
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Arizona Sage  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 120
Arizona, USA, Earth
Originally Posted by Ataru074
C major scale

1) hand separate
2) slow
3) start on each single note of the scale and go up 2 octaves
4) start on each single note of the scale and go down 2 octaves
5) use different rhythmic combinations:
5.a) 1/4 1/4 1/16 /16
5.b) 1/4 1/16 1/16 1/4
5.c) 1/16 1/16 1/4 1/4
5.d) 1/16 1/4 1/4 1/16
6) do it forte
7) do it piano
8) do it crescendo
9) do it diminuendo

get a book of scales for the fingering.

on your blues example... depends on many factors ( speed and control for example )
I'd do either (RH) 131213 or 131234
(LH) 121312 or 121432





Thank you so much for your help! I appreciate it immensely.


Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88
#2242679 - 03/07/14 03:08 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]  
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Andy Platt Offline
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Andy Platt  Offline
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Virginia, USA
Usually the problem is that darn thumb has to move so I would practice that bit especially. I'm doing a Czerny study with a ton of F major arpeggios (there are some others too, including a nasty one based on a diminished chord). My teacher's main comment at the lesson was the audible break where the thumb moves.

Another common problem is the keyboard topography changes when we move up and down the keyboard. You don't notice it for an octave but two - yup. So practice blocking the chords in both octaves and moving between them.


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#2242685 - 03/07/14 03:19 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Andy Platt]  
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I watched a video somewhere about the thumb position possibly contributing to the lack of a smooth transition. I've found myself playing the thumbed notes with the nail portion of the thumb. The guy in the video suggested moving the thumb further "into" the key, playing more on the side of the first knuckle of the thumb. The change in hand position is remarkable.


Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88
#2242690 - 03/07/14 03:30 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]  
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Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by Arizona Sage
I watched a video somewhere about the thumb position possibly contributing to the lack of a smooth transition. I've found myself playing the thumbed notes with the nail portion of the thumb. The guy in the video suggested moving the thumb further "into" the key, playing more on the side of the first knuckle of the thumb. The change in hand position is remarkable.


Actually, you don't want to really play on the side of the thumb with the knuckle like that. The idea is to get all of your different lengths of fingers to be even. If you play on the side of the thumb (meaning have a lot of contact with all of the nail joint pressing down the key), you will have a hitch in the sound and it will slow you down. I tend to play on the fleshy part next to the nail.


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#2242702 - 03/07/14 04:09 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Morodiene]  
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Yes, that's what I meant...sorry. I meant that I was using just the tip of my thumb vs pushing more of my thumb forward.


Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

Korg Kronos X88
#2243021 - 03/08/14 08:28 AM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]  
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Ataru074 Offline
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Good old uncle Liszt have plenty of exercises.... his whole book 2 of exercises is dedicated to prepare for the scales..
http://conquest.imslp.info/files/im...1802.15727.0c72-39087009941412vol._2.pdf




Private Piano Teacher. MTNA
working on:
Albeniz: Iberia
Beethoven: Op 53
Bartok: Mikrokosmos vol. 5
Debussy: Estampes
Moszkowski: Op 72
#2243083 - 03/08/14 12:06 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Arizona Sage]  
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Morodiene Offline
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Originally Posted by Arizona Sage
Yes, that's what I meant...sorry. I meant that I was using just the tip of my thumb vs pushing more of my thumb forward.


OK, that makes more sense. It's hard to describe technical issues on a forum, and much easier to just show. smile


private piano/voice teacher FT

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#2243163 - 03/08/14 02:25 PM Re: 2+ octave run technique [Re: Ataru074]  
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Originally Posted by Ataru074
Good old uncle Liszt have plenty of exercises.... his whole book 2 of exercises is dedicated to prepare for the scales..
http://conquest.imslp.info/files/im...1802.15727.0c72-39087009941412vol._2.pdf



Wow. Thank you for sharing this! Have a gig tonight with my AC/DC tribute act. Tomorrow I will attack this with zeal. Thanks again.


Not on the rug, man...

My musical thingys: http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=189614

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