Welcome to the Piano World Piano Forums Over 3 million posts about pianos, digital pianos, and all types of keyboard instruments. Over 100,000 members from around the world.
Join the World's Largest Community of Piano Lovers
(it's free)
It's Fun to Play the Piano ... Please Pass It On!
It's great to have different interpretations of songs for our enjoyment, but I came across this passage in Ludwig Van Beethoven's Pianoforte Sonatas:
Originally Posted by William Behrend
The beginning of the [third movement] involuntarily gives the impression of a rising wave, which at its highest part "shows its teeth" and breaks (in the FF chords); but in Beethoven's directions, the accuracy and carefulness of which are, as a rule, worthy of note and observance, there is no crescendo sign. Moreover, piano virtuosi may be heard performing this part with literal exactness; the ascending passages p and the chords with a sudden, violent force. The former view, however, seems more reasonable and attractive, regarded artistically and psychologically, and the author is able to state with satisfaction that an Anton Rubinstein performed the passages in question in this manner.
So, opiniatively, which sounds better? The sudden crashing chords, or a growing wave of noise?
For those who may not be familiar with the piece:
(If anyone has a favorite version, post that too!)
I like Lisitsa on this piece, extremely smooth and natural. Her finale is incredible as well.
Kovacevich is good too.
Last edited by Atrys; 03/06/1404:31 AM.
"A good intention but fixed and resolute - bent on high and holy ends, we shall find means to them on every side and at every moment; and even obstacles and opposition will but make us 'like the fabled specter-ships,' which sail the fastest in the very teeth of the wind." R. W. Emerson
"And if we look at the works of J.S. Bach — a benevolent god to which all musicians should offer a prayer to defend themselves against mediocrity... -Debussy
"It's ok if you disagree with me. I can't force you to be right."
In fact, if we consider that the art of piano playing consists in making the piano "sing", then we are indeed playing "songs"...
Making the piano "sing" is just a part of the art (and depending on repertoire choices, may not even be required) - and it is certainly not applicable to the opening of the last movement of the "Moonlight", which is theoretically the subject of the discussion.
Well, if phantomFive thinks it is, who are you to say it is not? Really, of all the nerve...
I mean, words don't actually mean anything outside of what the person using them thinks they mean, do they? If I and a few of my ignorant and badly educated friends want to call that thing by Beethoven a "butter dish", well, that's what it's called.
And speaking of butter dishes, I really like the butter dish in g minor by Medtner.
I like to imagine, in my heart of hearts, that the truly great pianists don't care if one uses the word 'song' in place of 'piece' (a term used on this forum without prejudice). After all, 'song' is fairly descriptive of the experience of music, while 'piece' could refer to a gun, or a sexy person, or a ...
I like to imagine, in my heart of hearts, that the truly great pianists don't care if one uses the word 'song' in place of 'piece' (a term used on this forum without prejudice). After all, 'song' is fairly descriptive of the experience of music, while 'piece' could refer to a gun, or a sexy person, or a ...
I like to imagine, in my heart of hearts, that the truly great pianists don't care if one uses the word 'song' in place of 'piece' (a term used on this forum without prejudice). After all, 'song' is fairly descriptive of the experience of music, while 'piece' could refer to a gun, or a sexy person, or a ...
"butter dish"??
Eh?, or Huh?, depending on your country of origin.
In fact, if we consider that the art of piano playing consists in making the piano "sing", then we are indeed playing "songs"...
But using the word "sonata" as opposed to "cantata" indicates that the piece is to be played, not sung.
Correct, but why do we get our knickers in a knot when everyone here knew at the onset precisely what the OP meant?
Because song. Didn't you know?
To the OP, I'm not sure the examples provided are the best differentiators of the two interpretations you're describing. Lisitsa, on the other hand, displayed the crescendo style brilliantly.
I think this is all about personal taste. What you like is what you like. I don't like it when a line doesn't move at all, so I prefer at least some dynamic alteration rather than a static p. But whether that would get to the level of necessitating a crescendo marking depends on how well the performer pull off their interpretations. I've heard this piece both ways, and like it both ways. I'm not sure I could even begin to say whether one way was more "effective" than the other, because I'm not sure effectiveness is really the right word for me to use.
Every day we are afforded a new chance. The problem with life is not that you run out of chances. In the end, what you run out of are days.
I understand why some people would like the crescendo, but so very many composers wrote music like that with crescendos that go right where you'd expect them to. Beethoven, on the other hand, often has these craggy sharp dynamic edges and that is one of the things that make his music so unique. I like the sf that comes out of nowhere.
Heather Reichgott, piano
Working on: Mel (Mélanie) Bonis - Sevillana, La cathédrale blessée William Grant Still - Three Visions
