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#2240034 - 03/02/14 12:02 PM Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780)  
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magflo Offline
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I've got a couple of questions about the line in function specifically on the two models listed above that I'm considering. Can I insert a microphone into the dp using the line in Jack? And if so, then can I sing into mic, play piano, and record it all using the built in recorder to usb flash drive ( to wav format on the kawai & privia or mp3 format on the kawai)?
I'd appreciate your responses! I'm pretty sure there are external ways to accomplish what I'm asking about (mixers/amps/software, etc.?) but I don't think I'm likely to bother buying or attaching other things to my dp.

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#2240040 - 03/02/14 12:10 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: magflo]  
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enhorning Offline
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I don't think line-in is recorded on either model - my understanding is that it's simply played through the piano's internal speakers.

#2240045 - 03/02/14 12:15 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: magflo]  
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I'm not sure, but I think it should work as long as your mic doesn't require phantom power. I'm not sure about recording internally, but certainly via the line out to your computer you could make an audio recording.

However, then it might be simpler just to plug the mic into the computer and record straight to that using free software like Audacity. If you are record voice and piano, it is wise to record them separately, recording piano first and then listening to that on headphones (usually just covering one ear so you can still hear yourself sing) while you record the vocal track. This way you can make adjustments to each track individually before doing the final mix into one wav file or mp3.

Doing it all at once means you probably won't be able to adjust the levels of each after the fact, so it will take many tries to get the balance you want (assuming the Line In has a volume control).


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#2240104 - 03/02/14 01:46 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: enhorning]  
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peterws Offline
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Originally Posted by enhorning
I don't think line-in is recorded on either model - my understanding is that it's simply played through the piano's internal speakers.


You can with the DGX650. It`ll do all the audio that comes in as well as the added bit from the player.


Last edited by peterws; 03/08/14 06:44 AM.

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#2240186 - 03/02/14 03:39 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: Morodiene]  
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magflo Offline
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Originally Posted by Morodiene

However, then it might be simpler just to plug the mic into the computer and record straight to that using free software like Audacity. If you are record voice and piano, it is wise to record them separately, recording piano first and then listening to that on headphones (usually just covering one ear so you can still hear yourself sing) while you record the vocal track. This way you can make adjustments to each track individually before doing the final mix into one wav file or mp3.


Thanks for your thorough reply. I'm just interested in doing this for fun / personal use, that's why I'm keen to know if I can just connect my mic and flash drive to the dp and just go for it without having to connect my computer and work with a software program.

#2240192 - 03/02/14 03:51 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: peterws]  
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magflo Offline
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Originally Posted by peterws
You can with the DGX650. It`ll do all the audio that comes in as well as the added bit from the player.

This is encouraging! I'd like to find out for sure if the models I'm considering can do this as well. I've made a list of what matters most to me in a dp and my thinking that these two can do this (because they have line in and can record in a format other than midi) have put these two to the top of my list, but if they can't do what I'm thinking then I'll have to reconsider if there are other models I should bring back into consideration again.

Looking for:
dp with cabinet model, three pedals, sliding key cover
great feel, action, sound, polyphony, triple sensor
fun factor: voices, layer/split, ability to record .wav or .mp3
connectivity: usb to host/ to device, line in/out
lcd screen for ease of access to features
Price @ $2000 or less

#2240331 - 03/02/14 07:25 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: magflo]  
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peterws Offline
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Originally Posted by magflo
Originally Posted by peterws
You can with the DGX650. It`ll do all the audio that comes in as well as the added bit from the player.

This is encouraging! I'd like to find out for sure if the models I'm considering can do this as well. I've made a list of what matters most to me in a dp and my thinking that these two can do this (because they have line in and can record in a format other than midi) have put these two to the top of my list, but if they can't do what I'm thinking then I'll have to reconsider if there are other models I should bring back into consideration again.

Looking for:
dp with cabinet model, three pedals, sliding key cover
great feel, action, sound, polyphony, triple sensor
fun factor: voices, layer/split, ability to record .wav or .mp3
connectivity: usb to host/ to device, line in/out
lcd screen for ease of access to features
Price @ $2000 or less


Try the AP 650 (Casio) It appears to have everything. I didn`t buy it because in the DGX the recording and everything else was very functional, and I`m familiar with DGX stuff. But it might suit you. It has an openable lid with red velvet! Oh, WOW!!!

Last edited by peterws; 03/02/14 07:26 PM.

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#2240338 - 03/02/14 07:36 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: magflo]  
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Charles Cohen Online content
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Originally Posted by magflo
I've got a couple of questions about the line in function specifically on the two models listed above that I'm considering. Can I insert a microphone into the dp using the line in Jack? And if so, then can I sing into mic, play piano, and record it all using the built in recorder to usb flash drive ( to wav format on the kawai & privia or mp3 format on the kawai)?
I'd appreciate your responses! I'm pretty sure there are external ways to accomplish what I'm asking about (mixers/amps/software, etc.?) but I don't think I'm likely to bother buying or attaching other things to my dp.


1. If the jack says "Line In", it wants "line-level" signals (several hundred millivolts). It _doesn't_ usually have a preamp for "mic-level" signals (say, 10 millivolts or so).

Some of the Roland DP's _do_ have "Mic In" jacks. I'm pretty sure the Casio PX-780 doesn't.

2. It'll cost you about $60 to buy a Behringer "802" 8-channel mixer (with 2 mic preamps, and phantom power), and about a half-hour to learn to use it. That will let you connect anything you want to a DP (and vice versa). Yes, you'll have to deal with "cable clutter".

"Does it have a mic preamp?" isn't a good criterion for picking a DP, IMHO. It throws out too many good candidates.

. Charles

PS -- bias -- I have a PX-350, and a Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer.


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2240376 - 03/02/14 08:42 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: peterws]  
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magflo Offline
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Originally Posted by peterws
Try the AP 650 (Casio) It appears to have everything.

True, I looked at that model and it does seem to have a lot of the features I'm looking for but
1.the only Casio dealer near me is too concerned with selling his overpriced leftover inventory of Roland HP 305s that he doesn't want to talk about anything else he sells.
2. If I'm going to buy from a dealer and go up to that price range then I'm just definitely reaching for the Kawai CN34 which would be just a few hundred more.

#2240385 - 03/02/14 08:57 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: Charles Cohen]  
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magflo Offline
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Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

1. If the jack says "Line In", it wants "line-level" signals (several hundred millivolts). It _doesn't_ usually have a preamp for "mic-level" signals (say, 10 millivolts or so)


Thank you for your reply, that seems to answer my question clearly. Further research showed me too that the Kawai CP series has the mic input with recording feature I was imagining possible in these other pianos, but of course much higher price range. Of course I can do other option you mentioned if my heart is really set on it.

Originally Posted by Charles Cohen

"Does it have a mic preamp?" isn't a good criterion for picking a DP, IMHO. It throws out too many good candidates.

If it were my only, or my most important criterion I would agree, but when considering making a sizeable purchase on a musical instrument that I imagine will last me many years (my current Korg Concert 3500 is 20 year old and still going) I think it's reasonable to list any and all wishes in my search to hopefully narrow down to the one that matches them all, and if I wind up with one that doesn't match them all then at least I go into the purchase knowing what I am going to compromise. I may have thrown out other good candidates but the two I'm still considering are very good candidates by all accounts. Just mho as well wink

Last edited by magflo; 03/02/14 08:59 PM.
#2241926 - 03/05/14 11:03 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: magflo]  
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magflo Offline
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So, I found out that the PX 350 does record whatever is coming through the line in so I'm assuming that the same will be true for the PX 780.

And I have another question, I hope Charles Cohen will come back and answer, he recommended I get something like a Behringer mixer, but could I just get something called a tube mic preamp like this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/280609-REG/Behringer_MIC100_MIC100_ULTRAGAIN_PRO.html

Connect my mic to that, connect that to the line in, and then record to usb while playing? Would that item linked above work?

Thanks

#2241930 - 03/05/14 11:15 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: magflo]  
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Charles Cohen Online content
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Yes, the MIC100 will work OK. The 12AX7 is a favorite tube from my childhood. I guess some things never die.

I'm still in favor of a Behringer Xenyx 802 preamp (much more flexibility than the MIC100), but it won't give your microphone added "tube warmth".

. Charles


. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2241931 - 03/05/14 11:21 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: Charles Cohen]  
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magflo Offline
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Thanks for prompt reply! I don't even know what tube warmth is, lol, I was just asking about that one because I saw it was inexpensive and small, to not take up much space or clutter, this piano will be in my main living room.

#2241941 - 03/05/14 11:52 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: magflo]  
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Okay, so cut a newb a break here and show me what's so cool about our line-ins smile

#2242019 - 03/06/14 03:58 AM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: magflo]  
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a_dee Offline
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i tried to connect a behringer uca202 for output of PC VST to the line-in on the AP650 and it was horrendous. I couldn't even connect a lineout from an ipod touch (~2v) either without it distorting horribly! I now own a pair of 5" monitors because the AP650 failed to serve.

#2242024 - 03/06/14 04:16 AM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: magflo]  
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Charles Cohen Online content
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Originally Posted by magflo
Thanks for prompt reply! I don't even know what tube warmth is, lol, I was just asking about that one because I saw it was inexpensive and small, to not take up much space or clutter, this piano will be in my main living room.


If "simplicity and unobtrusiveness" are important, the MIC100 will be fine. I've looked at the reviews on zzounds.com, and people like them. Some are being used as guitar and bass preamps / DI boxes.

"Tube warmth" is a funny thing. When transistor preamps (and power amps) became available, some people complained about them being "cold". Other people said:

. . . You mean they don't add harmonic distortion like
. . . the tube amplifiers we used to have?

I'm an agnostic -- don't know enough to have an opinion. And the manufacturers are not helpful.

There's a whole sub-culture based on using vacuum tubes in high-end audio gear. I have a (rarely used) Behringer VX2496 "voice processor", and one of its adjustments is "Tube Emulation" -- settings from "cold" to "hot". There isn't a _real_ tube in the unit. For the MIC100, amplification is done by some combination of tubes and solid-state devices.

For $40 -- buy one, and try it out, and report back. Based on the previous post, you might want to turn the "Output" knob down, so as not to overload the DP "Line In" input stage.

. Charles



. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2242367 - 03/06/14 08:50 PM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: Charles Cohen]  
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Charles Cohen Online content
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Just for fun, I ran a MIDI cable from my PX-350 "MIDI Out" jack to my MicroKorg "MIDI In" jack.

And a cable from the microKorg "Line Out/L/Mono" jack to the PX-350 "Line In/L/Mono" jack.

And on the PX-350, set "MIDI / Local Control" to "OFF".

The PX-350 keyboard now plays the microKorg, sounding through the PX-350 loudspeakers. The little synth is all grown up!<g>

It's a very strange experience -- _that_ piano was never supposed to make _those_ sounds!

I have no overload problems, with the microKorg cranked up to full volume, and the PX-350 a little below half-volume. [That was the purpose of this test.]

The PX-780 seems to be an electronic "twin" of the PX-350, so I'd guess that its "Line In" jacks would work the same way.

. Charles




. Charles
---------------------------
PX-350 / microKorg XL+ / Pianoteq / Lounge Lizard / Korg Wavedrum / EV ZXA1 speaker
#2242578 - 03/07/14 11:30 AM Re: Line In question (Kawai CN34 and Privia PX780) [Re: Charles Cohen]  
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How fun!


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