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The specifics of what types we're talking about doesn't matter - we were debating the merits of "spending as much as you can afford".


I'm not totally against home users getting professional stage pianos, if that's what suits them best... it's just that stage pianos come with the additional hassles, mainly around monitoring, and in addition to the extra equipment, it's more difficult than you might think to make them actually sound decent. It would certainly be nice if DP makers made their console and slab models' UIs as friendly as their stage pianos, since most of them are pretty terrible. FWIW I think the MP11 looks like an awesome piece of kit, but it's not ideal for everyone.

thank you for that. (by the way, I have a CA65.)
thats really good to know though. I'm so easily led. a gullible green 56 year old. might partially come with the territory, oldest kid in the family, and all that rot.
what I read about the really expensive AG N3 (and N2 and N1), was mouthwatering though, I assure you.
what you say is really cool though. it provides excellent balance.
also, just want to say, I like the idea of "cry once".
if you're really into it, and its worth it to you, and you can swing it (I'm all for fiscal responsibility.......its called living within your means), go for it. get the darn sweetest axe you can justify, taking everything into consideration.

I've only once heard a DP on studio monitors which was in a music tech lesson and was blown away by the sound. By monitor standards they weren't particularly expensive either at around £200 and according to her weren't a problem to setup. I could probably get some help with that if I do go down that route. I can hopefully get a money back guarantee and try a few different ones in the room to compare. They may also be better suited to vst's too rather than internal speakers.

I can understand why stage pianos have more sounds and control options than home oriented slabs but why is it they seem to have the best sounds and actions?

Also how do others who have stage pianos exclusively for home use feel about them and their practicality and ease of use?

I think this is what I mean...it's not that a "lesser" piano will limit you - that is possible - but more that a great instrument will bring you to new levels you never knew you had the ability to achieve.

I agree with this.
a year ago I played a Steinway Grand at the music store. it was not the first time. but this time, was magical. I was astonished at how good I sounded. it helped to break me out of a very long frustrated rut, of not being happy with my skill level.
I can only speak from my experience. and to do so, I will tell of an analogy that I like. it sorta fits.
in hockey, Wayne Gretzky was so good, that he would bring up the level of play, of everyone else around him.
a good DP can do the same thing.
and everything's relative, it must be said. if I compare my current DP, with the first one I bought 25 years ago. hah!!!! the ones I have now.......this is like being in heaven.

There is also the notion that someone can be spoiled by playing the best instrument before they have "earned" it. I would say there is definitely some merit in that - you do not want to overindulge yourself and make your soul sick. Then you would be unable to play any lesser model and your spirit would not value the very musical commodity of restraint.

There are two counterpoints that I would make to this. First off is age. If someone is a young'un then I would say you should definitely not spoil yourself early, in any regard. (This does not mean play crap, but perhaps save the absolute best of the best until you feel you deserve it). However, if you are of an age where you are starting to feel that time is running out (to put it bluntly), then this avoidance of overindulgement must surely become secondary to the need to squeeze the tea bag in life and experience all that it has in store.

The second point is a question. Can we really become spoiled by any technology which has so far yet to go? What is the best of the best now will unlikely be the best of the best in 10 years. So you can invest heavily in the absolute best DP now and not be spoiled because there will always be technological advancements which arrive in time for the rewards of your broadened efforts.

It is really up to an individuals circumstances whether or not he/she should get the best piano money can buy.

So do you think your skills were flattered or was this the true minstrelman? Is there any risk that you might strive less to conquer a technical difficulty when it's all but masked by a forgiving action, those black notes played near the back of the key being 'good enough'? After all, GF doesn't eliminate the problem, it just makes it a little easier. GF might be the beginner's passport to an easier life.

I had a friend who used to go jogging with weights attached to his legs. Actually, he was a bit of a nutter but I understood the rationale - he was training.

Rappy, interesting thoughts. I agree very much with some of it. only thing I would add at the moment......(very foggy now, not enough sleep last night, up since 2:15 am......ouch).............is that in my experience, it can be the case, that someone who is not very familiar with keyboard instruments, might not even be able to tell when they are playing an instrument that has a superior action.
most notable for me, is how easy it is to play with control higher up on the white keys.
I can do things on the CA65, that I can't do on other instruments.
the thing has to be taken as a whole as well.
dire tonic, to answer your first question: yes. yes to both.
to the second question, imho definitely not.
I've been dabbling at tickling the ivories for many decades.
people with as little natural talent as me, need all the help we can get.
this is the way I see it. I respect very much, if you see it differently.
I have guitars that are very hard to make certain chords on. I do not have giant super strong hands, nor super coordination.
ease of playability on a guitar, is one of the most important feaures. just like piano. imho.

That's definitely another dimension that plays into instant gratification. Reverb, for example. Do all DPs with on-board sounds fire up their default grand piano with reverb on? An irresistible temptation. And how many piano students will turn it off?

"..I sounded wonderful!, I must have it!.."

I don't believe that for a second....although I have been known to just hit the demo button and play air piano in front of naïve guests.

hahahahahahaha......you are so funny man.
hey thanks again for all the super generous help, when I was figuring out what to do for computer stuff for making software piano programs work.
you rock, man!!!!!

- no problem - although I think you opted for a different solution...hope it worked out!

thank you man.
right on. I did opt for a different solution for my HP laptop.
that said, you taught me alot. I am sure that I will be using stuff that I learned from you, on other computers, in the future.

This is a very good discussion. I agree with some points and not with others. Regarding "need", I think this should be extended into needs, wants, and constraints.

My constraints are significantly different from many in this forum. The first is age and time. At 67, I'm still a contract software developer and work between 50 and 60 hrs/week. That means the clock is ticking and that I don't have many spare hours in a week to achieve my musical goals.

OTOH, after several decades of hard work, I've reached the position where I can spend a bit more to get what I want. I could squeeze out the cash to buy a decent grand piano. But it does not meet my needs and wants, I can't justify the expense, and most importantly, it won't fit in our house without throwing out a lot of furniture.

For needs and wants, while I gratefully accept other's opinions when trying to figure out my needs and wants, only I can make the final determination. I respect another person's right to their needs and wants, and expect them to return the favor.

Regarding the MP11, it's the right size for me and has a great keyboard. If the MP11 has great piano sound, that's nice but I wouldn't buy it for that. I already have studio monitors, and three virtual pianos and two DAWs running on my music workstation. My setup already produces good quality sound - better than several of the cheaper grands I've tried out.

Ulimately, the key benefit for me is the GF keyboard. The majority opinion seems to be that GF is the best DP keyboard available. If it has a lighter touch, that's better for me because I have arthritus in my hands. So...

Is the MP11 worth $2,800 just for the GF keyboard? For me, I think it is. If there is a less expensive model with the GF keyboard, I'll buy that. Anyone know of one?

Regards,

Dan.

I think it is, too. I don't know of anything out there cheaper with the GF keyboard, but if you can't afford the MP11, definitely go with the VPC1. Or wait until the MP11 has been out and see if anyone sells it used (doubtful :D).

Morodiene,

I can afford the MP11. To me, it's reasonably priced, small footprint alternative to an acoustic piano with some nice features besides the GF keyboard.

Now I just have to convince my lovely wife that I'm worth the MP11. (I'm making progress on that issue.)

Regards,

Dan.

Haha, you may have to give her a blank check on some shoes and an outfit in exchange.

I have a question about the MP11 and the VPC1. How's the mechanical noise of the action itself? Do these models suffer from the same loud "clomping", "thumping" and "clacking" noises that plague almost all DPs? (I have a Yamaha CP33, fine for stage use but I consider it unplayable at home because of the action noise.)

There is still action noise on the VPC1 but I found it was a lot less than what I experienced with my Clavinova. That one was quite audibly 'thumpy' and yes it can be really annoying to people under or around you.

I think its hard to decrease it to nothing without compromising the action. A real piano would sound quite loud too if the sound was turned off.

My god. If a man said this there would be sexism allegations. It's like saying maybe Dan should show his wife who's boss and just get the damn piano!

Anyway Dan, I hope we have helped affirm your decision to get the MP11. It seems that this is the only piano which meets all of your requirements and you can easily afford it.

Wait.... you're not the OP? I guess there are a lot of people making this same decision. Well, whatever. Clearly you all should get the MP11 cos that's what you really want and you wouldn't even be thinking about it if you couldn't afford it.