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I don't want to perform this piece in 3 days...I really don't want to perform this piece in three days. *checks calender again* Yea, I have to perform this piece in three days and well, any ideas folks? (besides pray and practice until my fingers bleed) https://app.box.com/s/gvg659qb1e62gqiew9dr

I think the most important idea with this etude is, besides a ridiculous technique, to have a ridiculous mindset that you CAN hit every single note.
Especially in the middle, when you have the theme with grace-note eights in between massive leaps in both hands, it is important to say yourself: "Yes I can."
Have fun. Get in the spirit of the Ukrainian soldier!
You've done most of the technical work (I say "most" because a piece like this can ALWAYS be better. Personally, I think it should be faster! Liszt was quite the beast.), so just go out on stage and forget about all the ridiculous jumps.
Good luck!

Yes, little doubt it should be faster. This is day to of the Thursday, Friday, Monday performance group. I felt the piece was running away from me Thursday so today I play at a conservative tempo since I was performing in seminar. In hindsight, it's super conservative. Oh well, there always Monday.

I absolutely love this piece, always wanted to learn in but never got past the first 2 pages. Maybe in the near future I'll try it again. I've listen to this Etude countless times and from a lot of professionals and I will say the following:

It's tough to hear what's going on through all the reverb and ambiance in the recording so what I say may not be 100% accurate. Overall the you sound good and in control. The tempo although a bit slower than common, seems like a safe and decent tempo. The sum of the parts in this piece create unique rising and falling tones which you bring out clearly and pretty much in line with every other professional recording I've heard.

If I could suggest one thing, it's to bring out the left hand chords a little more. Or perhaps both left and right chords together to create more of a contrast between then the the sweeping thirds in between. Again it's tough to hear clearly, but this is what stood out to me.

Again, though. The tones and effects are there and you create them just fine and that might be more than enough.

Yes, I apologize for the absolutely horrendous acoustics in the hall. Hmm, the chords are all heavily topped voiced and I think overall fullness has been sacrificed. Really I guess one could argue that top voicing is rather unnecessary given the writing of the piece. I'm split on this. I like the fact that there is something that resembles clarity in the hall from h.e.double hockey sticks, yet at the same time the overall textures are thinner. Hmm... Oddly enough, I do agree that the effects come off even at such a slow tempo. It might be enough. Maybe making sure that the bottom note of each chord is prominent will get the desired effect.

Unfortunately only you can answer those question unless we get a better recording. One thing I can gather from the little that I can play, is that it's not too hard to give a sharp attack to the top and bottom notes of the chords while keeping the middle not audible yet subdued a little. This might give you that effect while not overpowering everything. At this point though I really wouldn't change your approach to playing so close to a performance. Three days away, you should play it as you know it now and try all this adjustments afterwards when you continue practicing this piece.

Well, I'll actually have to set the piece aside after this performance. Changing the voicing of chords shouldn't be a problem in two days, although the time might be better spent working on other aspects. Maybe I will record the piece again tomorrow and post it.

I don't see any problem with the chord voicing - it helps bring clarity amongst all the mud that the chromatic thirds cause.

From what I'm hearing so far, it sounds alright, but I'm sort of wishing that there was more chaos and a little less carefulness. You have a great octave technique, and I think if you let loose a bit more, the effect might be a bit closer to the spirit of the piece.

Good luck! Sounds good so far, and thanks for sharing.

First, let me say nice job with a very difficult piece. I've played this piece myself--one of only three transcendentals that I studied seriously--and it is a bear. Also, as a very strong octave player, I did enjoy what you did with yours.

If I may, I would like to critique one aspect of this piece. While I felt the overall tempo was a hair slow, it wasn't too far off or unconvincing. And I was more okay with you taking the extra time in the middle, more lyrical, section. But I always felt the other sections should have a little more strictness to them than most pianists play.

Take a look at the four "big" repetitions of the theme -- Liszt writes it four different ways, and it should be played four different ways. Also, notice that it slowly gets faster over the course of the piece. Right from the start (after the introduction), the theme opens in its slowest and longest form. From there, the theme tightens, with fewer chromatic notes between outside melody octaves, eventually culminating in fewer beats between octaves.

The only way you can really capture this is to make sure the first iteration is strict in its beats. While you held on nicely to the outside tempo -- meaning the melody was in time with itself -- you collapsed on the inner line. The 16th notes were played very glossed-over, and there was no sense of time, so instead of "BOM da-da-DA-da-da-da BOM da-da-DA-da-da-da" we got "BOM dadadadadada ... BOM dadadadadada ..." and that muddles both that section, and makes subsequent repetitions less musically interesting and/or effective.

I think your correct in a way. But your suggesting the accentuation of a weak beat. We also have to consider compression which almost inevitably happens at a faster tempo. In that case an accent is, in my opinion, practically meaningless. At this tempo I think the best one can do is play the thirds heavier so that the rhythm comes across, which was one of the main comments I received.

I'm also not so sure I agree that the variations are getting faster over the course of the piece. Animato doesn't in my mind necessarily mean faster. It means animated. To me it makes a lot more sense if the theme is taken slower from a poetic sense and also with the consideration that the tempo returns to Allegro after the simulation of a cavalry charge. This is just my take on it. If your looking for cohesiveness by means of rhythm then your points are valid, but one can also argue that Liszt is simply thickening and thinning textures or creating urgency. Considering that the music is based on poetry I believe we can still yet make more arguments for or against this.

Because I said I would, I'm posting a recording from today. Unlike the former, I'm not performing in front of an audience so I decided to just go for it. Oh dear.

Excuse the tuning of the piano, it's in a room where it's too expensive to regulate temperature.

https://app.box.com/s/amfriyzzyoi5micltc0k

Thanks Derulux, I feel it's not such a bad start. I still would rather not be performing the piece so soon.

I will say this, regardless of everything else, that tempo, to me, is perfect. I do see how problematic it is to execute it at that speed though. I would say slow it down a little more for performance and you should be good. The thing I said about the chords earlier is non-existant now that I can hear everything more clearly. Phrasing is good and sounds very professional to be honest. Shame about the tuning.

Thanks, at least I know what tempo to aim for when I get more time to work on it.

It can be slightly accented if you want, and I see how the "notation" I used might imply that, but I was more concerned with the note falling on the weak beat, and not being rushed/early. I've played it both ways (accented and unaccented); when you accent it, it is so slight that it is just a color. But if you pedal heavily, it won't come out, so there is a balancing act there.


I think that's fair. It's my take on it; doesn't have to be everyone's.

What I see is this:
1st iteration, a big 4/4 time sig with inner 16th note, loudest, slowest, heaviest iteration.

2nd iteration, also 4/4, tempo marking says Tempo 1, but we see the inner line is in triplets. So, while it says 4/4, it really has a 12/8 feel. When we leave the tempo the same, but go from a 4/4 feel to a 12/8 feel, the 8th notes become triplets, and hence the tempo feels faster (even when it isn't). This iteration is a more subtle change.

3rd iteration, now in 6/8, marked Animato, and the inner triplet lines are now completely changed. Instead of two beats of triplets, we have one beat, changed to grace notes. Even if you try to take Tempo 1 (which I think is nearly impossible, depending on your tempo at Tempo 1), you're basically now playing in a cut time feel from iteration 2. The top melody has gone from half notes to quarter notes, and we've lost a beat on the inner line, too.

4th iteration, now in 2/4, marked "Allegro deciso" or decisively/decidedly fast. The melody has gone through another "cut time" transition, now taking up the space of an 8th note, with only one 8th note (instead of two in the 3rd iteration) between. If you take this transition literally, you go from a 6/8 feel to a 2/4 feel.. even if the tempo stays the same, it is decidedly faster than the 3rd iteration, because the previous space occupied by 3 beats is now only occupied by 2 beats (and at the same time, we've gone from a quarter note to an 8th note).

Here's another look:

1st iteration: BOM da-da-DA-da-da-da BOM da-da-DA-da-da-da
2nd iteration: BOM da-da DA-da-da BOM da-da DA-da-da
3rd iteration: BOM da-da BOM da-da
4th iteration: BOM da BOM da

Now obviously, the location isn't perfect because of changing time sigs and note values, but you can see the compression pretty easily.


I've gone and had a listen to the newest version. Comments below. This time, I'm doing it as a "running commentary", meaning "while I listen to it". Sometimes it's easier for me to do that. Hope you don't mind!

This one sounds different right from the start -- could be acoustics, but is there a reason you were a little choppy with the pedal (space between notes)? If you're trying to show the rests, fine, but I think it may have been either the recording itself, or perhaps the notes were a little too short.. not sure which.

If I were working with you on the 1st iteration, as I've come to call it, I would try to get you to play the outer line faster, but the inner line slower. There were places where it felt very natural, but also places where it still feels rushed. (I know, what can I expect? It's only a day later! Just an observation. )

When you start at the top of the big octave run down the piano, consider bringing out the bottom note a little more (in the last measure of this run, it's marked accented). This is just an idea.. it has a clear scale-like line down the piano, and I liked the effect when I did it. Course, I'm trying to think back 8 years, but I do remember this line. [Alternatively, you can play it in triplets by bringing out every 3rd note, but I didn't like that effect as much.]

Measure before the octave chromatic run, bring out that bass.. guessing your hand slipped by the sound of it?

At the end of the lyrical section, the descending chromatics go from one hand to two hands. It sounded a little separated. The legato you had in the one-hand descending line was outstanding, just really wonderful. But when it goes to two hands, it gets a little choppy.

At the animato, you started at a great tempo, but about halfway through, it started to feel like you were jumping the beat a little. I know you were trying to push the tempo a little with this performance, so it could be symptomatic of that, but don't be afraid to relax into the tempo you started this section in -- it was just right, IMO.

At the 4th iteration, I am a big fan of playing it "in time" with the 3rd iteration, so whatever tempo you set for the 3rd iteration, that's the tempo for the 4th. Going from 3 beats to 2 speeds it up considerably, and if you set a fast tempo for the Animato, then the Allegro deciso is pretty much impossible, but the effect is striking. You took it a little slower, which I think most people do, but take a look at it and see if you like it.

Right before the quasi recitativo, check out the LH ascending line. Bring out the thumb a little more.

At the Piu moderato, consider time carefully. You take it freely. If that's a conscious choice, so be it. If not, consider counting the rests.

Last couple measures -- settle into that alternating Dmaj-Gm line and hammer it. (Consider a triplet beat there.. recalling previous iterations of the theme. I don't think I ultimately went for it, but it changes the sound considerably.)

Good performance. I know you were pushing the tempo, and there were flubs, so I ignored them. I'm pretty sure you knew where you missed a note; no need to rehash it. Hope some of this commentary helps!

I was choppy with the pedal because the chords have marked accents, and I find that the effect is rather unsettling when observed. I almost certain I did the same thing in the first recording, but it was in a different hall with a horrendous amount of reverb and a far away mic placement. It's worth noting that I'll be playing in the former hall tomorrow so there's no point in changing it under the circumstances. Although I think some experimentation is warranted as I don't prefer the effect myself, but I did as I was told.

I'll also state that the recording you were listening to is very accurate to what I heard as I played. This isn't true with the former as it's was taken from about half way back in the seating.

I do agree that the thirds sound too compressed, at least for my liking. But, as you said, what can one expect a day later.

I'm sitting here with a Henle and there are no marked accents with the exception of the first two runs and the start of the semi continuous third. Regardless, I still think bringing out the bottom could be a great effect especially near the end. I also tried playing it in triples and, likewise, didn't like it.

No, there was no slip. I'm quite sure I simply forgot. Thanks for catching that.

I do agree it's a little choppy, although considering it's registration I don't think that's a bad thing considering almost any hall will fix that for me.


Yes, the Animato was unintentionally rushed unfortunately. And yes I do like the first tempo. I think I was simply worried that it would come off too slow in context and as a result stared pushing.

I love that idea, absolute love it. Glad you said something...I just don't think I can do it yet. Great idea though. Perfect really.

Very nice, I completely missed that.

It works better in time. I'll have to make sure to count. I find this passage very disconcerting to perform. For the first time I fell I can sense whether the audience is paying attention or not. I think I've been rushing it because of that.

My hands are tied there, I try your idea and possibly bring it up next lesson.

Thanks for listening. Some of the flubs were a bit too cringe worthy for me to actually make it through the second recording. I'm glad you did. I find these comments immensely helpful.

Geez, yeah.. with a performance so soon, I wouldn't even experiment. Everything as-is, unless you're comfortable with that kind of experimenting. The most important thing is to perform. I totally get that.


Agreed -- play to the venue. I figured the recording would give a different effect than the concert hall anyway.


Great, glad you like it! I know exactly what you mean.. I've often set the animato too fast, and then gotten to this part and wished someone else were playing it.. lol


I think this is one of the most exposed moments and difficult interpretations in all of Liszt's works. It only lasts a few measures, but man does it have to be spot-on to be convincing. And yes, given the up-tempo of most of the piece, it is very hard not to rush this (or, its opposite, drag it out too long). Such a delicate few measures..


Anytime. I'm glad some of the things I mentioned were helpful.

Lol, well I sort of have a reputation for finishing or even learning entire pieces a week before with not unsatisfactory results. Thankfully this one has had at least 2months. Heck, I couldn't even play the whole thing from memory before, Tuesday. Then I feel I really actually got a chance to actually interpret the piece, so I think a change here and there should be fine.

Thanks Again!!!

So you started this and finished it in 2 months? If that's the case I really hate you. I spent 4 months learning Liszt's 2nd legend and that was with some intense hours of practice every day. I wish I could learn Mazeppa that quickly...lol

Lol, sorta. That is if you can call this learned.

I'd say maybe closer to two and a half. I did some work on it in late November and through December. Never more than an hour,and only a day here or there. I got up until the slow section somewhat under the fingers. Then I started seriously working on it about 1-2 hours a day in mid January up until now. Maybe I'm underestimating how long I've worked on it.

I find Liszt incredibly pianistic and incredibly comfortable. I also find it rather straight forward, so for me it's generally an easy learn.

Despite this, I find that if left alone it regresses very quickly. I also find that it's really hard to produce a truly polished performance of his music. I learned the 10th Transcendental about 3-4 years ago, and I still don't feel it's anywhere near mastered.

I think it's rather interesting.

I know what you mean. Like I said before, I have tried Mazeppa a little, also La campanella which I used to play the first 2 pages and despite their difficulty, they do fall into the hands pretty well. The parts of the Legend that are the hardest, are actually the parts where I can almost "hug" the notes and embrace them. Of course that's not entirely the case with his early works where I swear he completely disregarded the fact that everyone around him were just humans with limits.

I only know of them. I should sit down with some early Liszt and see how I fare. I congratulate your on getting that far with La Campanella. I figure it'd be a nightmare for me.