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You should probably stop trying the expensive models and be happy with what's available in the mid range! They're perfectly good enough for thousands of aspiring pianists. Of course there's always better if you want to spend a fortune, but don't let that make you unhappy with the cheaper ones. If you can't be happy with anything less than "the best", you probably have psychological issues and would be better off spending the money on some counselling...


Again, not sure what makes you such a special snowflake that the mid-range stuff is not good enough for you, assuming you're not a pro... also, you can sit a couple of small monitors on the end of your console if the sound isn't sufficient. I'm thinking of getting an HP504 with some of these, and it's going to sound great.


Perhaps, although you can get little dedicated controllers that you can sit by your music rest if you need that.

thank you for your reply.
all of this is a fascinating subject. the design and evolution of the sound and touch/feel of keyboard instruments that are powered by electricity.
it is so interesting to read about other people's opinions and experiences with what is available now.
if I compare what I have now, to what I had 25 years ago..............man, loving life here!!!!

Why would I buy something if I'm unhappy with it and find the more expensive models to actually be better and have a budget that can cover them? That is the point of going into the shop and testing them. I was still new to piano when I got those impressions but did go straight from playing on 2 different APs (Kawai upright and then a Yamaha Grand) to the shops on 2 occasions. I took my teacher along for another more experienced opinion and her impressions pretty much matched my own.

In the end I got the cheapest DP I could think of with a decent action the P-35 and left the more expensive purchase for later when I can make a better decision and have a better choice.

It's not a psychological thing about the price either since I didn't like the sound of the Avantgrand I tried a few months ago when I last visited a shop. I much preferred one of the piano samples on a CVP to any of the other Yamaha DP's in that shop. The action of the AG felt far more realistic though.

The £1500-1800 stage pianos I'm considering are a long way from being the most expensive DPs. This would be a long term purchase too so I have to look ahead and importantly be satisfied with what I've just tested.

Slightly condescending?

It kind of came off that way to me, too. But I am of the opinion that someone should buy as good a piano as they can reasonably afford. That is because it can be so inspiring to be on a good quality instrument, and it can be very, very frustrating on something that you have to fight, or doesn't respond the way you want. Settling for less just because you're a beginner or will never be a concert pianist is pure rubbish, IMO.

I'm pretty much a beginner and have a Casio PX-850. It's hooked up to a computer with three virtual pianos whose sound is excellent (Galaxy Instruments Vintage D is my favorite). With Rokit powered speakers and woofer, the output is very nice. But...

As I'm progressing, I'm noticing the limitations of the PX-850's keyboard action. I wouldn't notice except that I'm fortunate to take lessons on grand pianos at a piano store. Niiiiice! And then there is the CA65/95...

I had a chance to play a CA95 and was simply amazed with the Grand Feel keyboard action. Even a beginner like me could feel the difference. It was love at first (Grand) Feel.

So I've been looking... I don't want a CA65/95 because of the size and cost. The VPC1 is nice, but it won't fit my available space (it's too wide) and it doesn't have the Grand Feel keyboard.

Now we have the MP11. It's the right size, has Grand Feel, and the price is not exorbitant. BUT... It's a stage piano. With an enormous number of bells and whistles that a pro musician can use.

Yes, I know it's serious overkill for my needs, but I have to ask: Is it even remotely reasonable use this as replacement for my PX-850 where it will sit in one place pretty much permanently?

Thanks,

Dan.

Interesting. I was lloking at the Casio range when deciding what to buy, recently. I was not happy about the keyboard despite most folk here thinking it was good. Good for it`s price, maybe. But the dreaded black notes tell their own story if you have long fingers.

I`m waiting for Casio to do the decent thing. New keyboard . . . . for nice, long pivot point. It`s got to happen soon, other manufacturers are dreading the moment it does. I`d wait a bit.

In your opinion, does the PX850 live up to the promotional videos soundwise? Because I`ve never heard a better piano at any price.(imo)

PX-850 sound is quite good. That is until you use virtual piano software and good powered speakers. Then it's no contest.

Dan.

Special snowflake? What kind of BS is that? First of all, whether it be keyboard or cars, if someone has the resources and wants the best, what is the problem? You don't need to be a pro to appreciate and enjoy a higher end instrument.

Second, sticking a pair of monitors at the end of your console isn't going to give you what higher end consoles like the Yamaha Ns, Roland LX-15e and Kawai CS10 give you. In fact, if you try to run monitors and your internal speakers at the same time, it might sound like crap.

Please note that both the VPC1 and MP11 are the same width at 138 cm.

Cheers,
James
x

Lets try to look at it this way. The higher end DP's are no where near as costly as a decent AP. Also the higher end DP's are only "decent" as compared in the AP world.
Before I started actually playing. I thought the low end DP's should be good enough. I was disappointed. Then the mid range are a trade off compromise. Now were getting everything better.
I think we've lost focus ever thinking buying a high end DP is "special". It's dirt cheap compared in the AP world. If you can afford it. As a beginner, you'll be better off in every way.
I'm very thankful to the DP world. Without it I couldn't play.

I agree. There is nothing wrong with buying the best piano one can afford, and I would argue that buying less simply because you are a beginner can result in losing interest from playing on something that is uninspiring. I also think, you're going to spend $1k on an instrument that you know you will need to upgrade in a year or two, and then fork over another $2-4k, then why not take the plunge and get something you can stick with for years? If you can manage it, that is. I'm not recommending one get into financial troubles over it.

I'm very glad there are DPs at the low end of the spectrum. Many of my students can't afford/have no room/have sound concerns with acoustics, and so a low-end or even used DP is a great option for them. Hopefully they are able to upgrade in the future, but that isn't always possible.

Yes exactly this is something that came up with my teacher of the time, that incremental updates might end up costing more in the long run. And I know from playing on much higher quality instruments and using software Pianos how much more enjoyable it can be.

When I first started I was using an unweighted 61 key keyboard with no stand or even a music rest. I kept trying to get by on that and delay when I'd get a DP. I had a couple of lessons on grands (Yamaha S4 and C3) and it was quite a contrast to say the least coming back to that setup I had at home. I then moved onto a P-35 with uncomfortable X-stand. Now with new models coming out and older versions coming down in price I'll spend a bit more and hopefully get something I'll be happy with for many years.

There are lots of people who just buy whatever piano is cheap and available and think nothing more of it---they don't need the best. Those people don't tend to hang out in digital piano forums. People here are more likely interested in the best or at least the very best that can be had on a given budget.

I often see people say stuff like "you should stop researching pianos and just go play what you have" but that's kind of the opposite of what we do here. So there's no reason to say it.

James,

Thanks for clarifying this. For some reason, I thought the VPC1 was 57 inches wide. So both would fit the space I have available - 54-3/4" wide.

Now about the MP11's Grand Feel keyboard...

Dan.

Apolgies for any jimmies rustled! I probably phrased it badly.

Many interesting points raised... sorry I don't have time to respond to them all. So I'll just say that I would strongly disagree with the idea that you should spend as much as you can afford, on a DP or anything else for that matter. First, because it's not a useful guideline (what proportion exactly of my savings should I spend? surely not the whole lot?), and second, because it makes far more sense to spend as much as you need to, and not a penny more. Of course, how much you need to spend depends on a lot of factors, including what you're going to use it for (professional, or learning to play Twinkle Twinkle), what you can get for what amount of money etc. If Casio came out with a CA-65 beater for $1000, why should anyone pay more, even if they can afford it? But many people don't even need that level of sophistication, regardless of how much money they have. In short, buying things that are overspecified for your needs is really wasteful. If you still need something to spend the remaining money on, I can offer suggestions!

Firstly, I have no jimmies to rustle.

Secondly, when you pay for a higher-end instrument, you also get better basics: a better sound, a better action. Sure, you get more bells and whistles that you may never need, but a manufacturer has to broaden the market to ensure greater sales. So often there will be overlap between the professional gigging musician, the music teacher, the adult beginner hobbyist, or the amateur advanced pianist.

I had to grow up learning piano on a spinet that had some sentimental value to the family - and that's the only value it had. While most of the keys worked, it could not be tuned because the frame was cracked, many of the low notes were little more than a "clunk", the only way one could coax a legato from the damper pedal was to employ that and the sostenuto pedals simultaneously...the list goes on. Needless to say, practicing was extremely frustrating even as a beginner, and uninspiring. I know that we are talking about something in disrepair and not simply something low-end but in full working order. But any time I could get I would gravitate to a piano and play it until those with me got annoyed and pulled me away - whether it be in a hotel, shopping mall, a stage, whatever. It was always such a pleasure to be able to play something that did what I heard in my head, something that actually responded rather than arm wrestled.

Another anecdote comes from many students over the years who were trying to learn piano on a keyboard or DP that was uninspiring. The transformation that took place in their playing once they upgraded their instrument was night and day - even for beginners who did not have aspirations to become a professional pianist.

From these experiences, I contend that one should get the best instrument they can afford - with the caveat that I had previously stated, without putting themselves in financial trouble. Having the right tool for the job - a piano-shaped object with 88 weighted keys - is just a bare minimum. Some will only be able to scrape up enough funds for that. IF you have the disposable income to get more, then you shouldn't short-change yourself, especially since upgrading will be in the near future thus increasing your overall investment in an instrument.

I agree with lolatu,
The law of diminishing returns cuts in somewhere around when One's needs/wants/aspirations (and mid term horizons) can be met, beyond that is excess.
Example; I know that I could afford a fairly good Grand, quite possibly a very good one, but my aspirations can be met with what I already have and I still have "room to grow" with it.
I am in no way "instrument limited" in the immediate or mid future.
It is VERY unlikely that I will every be limited by the instrument, which doesn't mean that I don't have ambition for my playing, but I am realistic about these things.

I have other spending opportunities for outlays of that magnitude.
(other opportunities for the space too).

While I'm SURE that a nice grand would REALLY inspire me to practice more and enjoy my playing more, the cost/benefit ratio wouldn't justify it.

I know, I know, not everything should be quantified in monetary terms, but the thought of "best I can afford" IS about money.

I guess it's hard for m to see it that way because music is so important to me. I suppose if it were about something I didn't have a lot of care for then I could agree.

Jimmy-wise, I'd say that comment has high rustle potential...